[Cialug] Code of Conduct?

Fri Jun 4 17:35:17 UTC 2021

I can't reiterate this enough. we shouldn't be trying to reinvent this
wheel.

https://thenewstack.io/open-source-communities-need-more-safe-spaces-and-codes-of-conducts-now

On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 11:37 AM jim kraai <jimgkraai at gmail.com> wrote:

> here's what could be called a pre-chilling effect, it's probably not novel,
> but this comes from within
>
> this addresses subjective, not objective considerations
>
> intent of actions (including communication) cannot be reliably determined
>
> the effects of actions, including their interpretations, change
> continuously over time across multiple subjective contexts, most of which
> don't yet exist
> corollary:  standards of behavior change over time
>
> note that the accuracy of reported of effect cannot be reliably determined,
> let alone the intent of the reporter
> since reporting effects is itself an action, see intent of actions
>
> if the onus is on the speaker to avoid negative effects over all times, and
> in all existing and potential future contexts,
> then the speaker's efforts will either immediate or eventual effort (or
> lack of) will have harmed someone, somewhere, somewhen
> corollary:  in such an environment, it will always eventually be possible
> to find someone who can claim to have been harmed by someone who took an
> action
>
> it would seem that it's never in any person's interest to take any action
> at all
> worse yet, intended inaction is itself an action, and intention of reported
> unintended inaction will be subject to interpretation down the road
>
> it would seem that everyone who acts or doesn't act will probably
> immediately be or have been wrong, and not just now, but for all time,
> probably multiple times and in multiple eventual contexts
>
> corollary:  any action resulting in a formal code of conduct will
> eventually, if not immediately, be found to have cause harm, including, but
> not limited to having a chilling effect on communication
>
> since we're all already wrong, perhaps can we just try to communicate as
> best (we claim) we can
>
> corollary:  i'll pay, somehow and somewhen, for saying these things
> publicly
>
> this is pretty incomplete and off-the-cuff, so if anyone is aware of a
> better treatment of this subject, please either share with all or direct to
> me
>
> I choose to believe in the good, constructive intent of each of you.  I
> hope each of you chooses to believe the same of each of us all, but
> especially me  ;-)
>
> thanks!
>
>
> On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:41 PM Josh More <jmore at starmind.org> wrote:
>
> > I think it's worth any group's time to explore how the culture of both
> > overt and subtle behavior can cause discomfort and harm to others.  Even
> if
> > it doesn't directly change things for the group itself, the effort of
> going
> > through the process can have a significant impact on the members'
> personal
> > lives.
> >
> > No one is perfect, and while it is difficult to look at our own mistakes
> > and personal flaws, it's necessary if you want to improve.
> >
> > -Josh More
> >
> > On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:24 PM Dave Hala <dave at 58ghz.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Does the group really need one? Traffic on this mailing list has been
> > > declining pretty steadily the last few years and I'm fairly certain
> it's
> > > not due to bad behaviour, although I couldn't tell you why.
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:15 PM Hakan E. Duran <ehakanduran at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As many of you may already know, I am not an IT professional but more
> > of
> > > > a linux enthusiast. I don't have a legal background either, so I have
> > > > minimum things to offer for this discussion if anything at all. What
> I
> > > > thought I could offer was perhaps proof-reading the document, suggest
> > > > some corrections, etc., i.e. mainly scutwork.
> > > >
> > > > I am also enjoying your company without paying any dues. If the
> general
> > > > consensus is to revitalize them, I would be happy to do my part.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Hakan
> > > >
> > > > On 21/05/24 09:52AM, Jeff Chapin wrote:
> > > > > This seems like a topic I probably should not comment on (I have
> > never
> > > > paid
> > > > > dues, and am a remote, email-only member), and I will not be
> offended
> > > if
> > > > my
> > > > > input is not wanted.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that having a code of conduct is a great idea. The world we
> > > live
> > > > in
> > > > > is increasingly moving towards that being expected of all groups,
> and
> > > it
> > > > is
> > > > > a sign of a willingness to be inclusive.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not think that it would be possible to come up with an
> > exhaustive
> > > > list
> > > > > of prohibited behaviors, nor would we likely keep it maintained --
> > so I
> > > > > think that it would be a great idea to leverage what a larger group
> > was
> > > > > doing. Add in the fact that this community, both locally, and
> > > nationally,
> > > > > that our demographics are highly skewed, this is going to be a
> > > difficult
> > > > > thing to create from the ground up without a base to start with.
> > > > >
> > > > > There was an 'open source code of conduct' for a while, but they
> seem
> > > to
> > > > > have closed the project:
> > > https://github.com/todogroup/opencodeofconduct.
> > > > I
> > > > > really wish that this project was still live, because we could then
> > > fork
> > > > a
> > > > > code of conduct off that, and vote and rebase it periodically to
> pull
> > > in
> > > > > core updates for issues our group has not had to deal with.
> > > > >
> > > > > All of that said, I would be interested in *starting* such a
> project,
> > > if
> > > > > others are also interested. We could develop the code and store it
> on
> > > > > Github, allow other groups to fork/pull requests, and develop a
> > generic
> > > > > code of conduct.  This is probably overkill for what *WE* need, but
> > it
> > > > is a
> > > > > contribution to the larger open source community. Short of
> starting a
> > > > > larger project, I would be interested in helping with the Code of
> > > Conduct
> > > > > for our group.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 9:13 AM Theron Conrey <theron at conrey.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > If we're going to adapt one, I would prefer that we go broad. If
> > > there
> > > > are
> > > > > > folks that are looking for community, we want to make sure we're
> > > there
> > > > to
> > > > > > support them in the most healthy way possible. A Simple "be
> > > respectful"
> > > > > > isn't going to provide the air cover folks are looking for.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would recommend starting with a couple examples of well defined
> > > > codes of
> > > > > > conduct from larger OS projects and maybe a few local meetups.
> Here
> > > > are a
> > > > > > few good ones imho.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> https://www.honeycomb.io/honeycomb-user-community-code-of-conduct/
> > > > > > https://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/pages/12061872/Code_of_Conduct/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > addressing CoC violations is a challenge everywhere, but being
> > clear
> > > > about
> > > > > > it in our CoC is critical.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://reshamas.github.io/managing-our-code-of-conduct/#addressing-violations
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be willing to step in and help get this off the ground if
> > > > needed.
> > > > > > Either way, I think this is REALLY important that we treat this
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > seriousness it deserves, and set a high bar at inclusiveness over
> > > > whatever
> > > > > > the hell the other option is.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -theron
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 1:30 AM Andrew Denner <
> > linux-list at upeke.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > As much as I hate a need to even talk about it, in the "Be
> > > prepared"
> > > > > > > mindset before a problem happens, what are people's opinions
> on a
> > > > simple,
> > > > > > > easy code of conduct for the group?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It was suggested by a long time member to have some sort of a
> > blurb
> > > > on
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > website something along the lines of "CIALUG members are
> expected
> > > to
> > > > get
> > > > > > > along with others and be respectful."  I welcome anyone with
> > > > wordsmithing
> > > > > > > or administrative powers to improve on that statement.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They also recommended that we come up with some sort of council
> > or
> > > > > > > procedure on how to handle any violations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I welcome others' thoughts and input on this issue.
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > > > > https://www.cialug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > > > https://www.cialug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jeff Chapin
> > > > > President, CedarLug, retired
> > > > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
> > > > > President, UNI Scuba Club
> > > > > Senator, NISG, retired
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > > https://www.cialug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > https://www.cialug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > https://www.osis.us
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> > >
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