[Cialug] Code of Conduct?

Fri Jun 4 16:36:26 UTC 2021

here's what could be called a pre-chilling effect, it's probably not novel,
but this comes from within

this addresses subjective, not objective considerations

intent of actions (including communication) cannot be reliably determined

the effects of actions, including their interpretations, change
continuously over time across multiple subjective contexts, most of which
don't yet exist
corollary:  standards of behavior change over time

note that the accuracy of reported of effect cannot be reliably determined,
let alone the intent of the reporter
since reporting effects is itself an action, see intent of actions

if the onus is on the speaker to avoid negative effects over all times, and
in all existing and potential future contexts,
then the speaker's efforts will either immediate or eventual effort (or
lack of) will have harmed someone, somewhere, somewhen
corollary:  in such an environment, it will always eventually be possible
to find someone who can claim to have been harmed by someone who took an
action

it would seem that it's never in any person's interest to take any action
at all
worse yet, intended inaction is itself an action, and intention of reported
unintended inaction will be subject to interpretation down the road

it would seem that everyone who acts or doesn't act will probably
immediately be or have been wrong, and not just now, but for all time,
probably multiple times and in multiple eventual contexts

corollary:  any action resulting in a formal code of conduct will
eventually, if not immediately, be found to have cause harm, including, but
not limited to having a chilling effect on communication

since we're all already wrong, perhaps can we just try to communicate as
best (we claim) we can

corollary:  i'll pay, somehow and somewhen, for saying these things
publicly

this is pretty incomplete and off-the-cuff, so if anyone is aware of a
better treatment of this subject, please either share with all or direct to
me

I choose to believe in the good, constructive intent of each of you.  I
hope each of you chooses to believe the same of each of us all, but
especially me  ;-)

thanks!

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:41 PM Josh More <jmore at starmind.org> wrote:

> I think it's worth any group's time to explore how the culture of both
> overt and subtle behavior can cause discomfort and harm to others.  Even if
> it doesn't directly change things for the group itself, the effort of going
> through the process can have a significant impact on the members' personal
> lives.
>
> No one is perfect, and while it is difficult to look at our own mistakes
> and personal flaws, it's necessary if you want to improve.
>
> -Josh More
>
> On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:24 PM Dave Hala <dave at 58ghz.net> wrote:
>
> > Does the group really need one? Traffic on this mailing list has been
> > declining pretty steadily the last few years and I'm fairly certain it's
> > not due to bad behaviour, although I couldn't tell you why.
> >
> > On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:15 PM Hakan E. Duran <ehakanduran at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As many of you may already know, I am not an IT professional but more
> of
> > > a linux enthusiast. I don't have a legal background either, so I have
> > > minimum things to offer for this discussion if anything at all. What I
> > > thought I could offer was perhaps proof-reading the document, suggest
> > > some corrections, etc., i.e. mainly scutwork.
> > >
> > > I am also enjoying your company without paying any dues. If the general
> > > consensus is to revitalize them, I would be happy to do my part.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Hakan
> > >
> > > On 21/05/24 09:52AM, Jeff Chapin wrote:
> > > > This seems like a topic I probably should not comment on (I have
> never
> > > paid
> > > > dues, and am a remote, email-only member), and I will not be offended
> > if
> > > my
> > > > input is not wanted.
> > > >
> > > > I think that having a code of conduct is a great idea. The world we
> > live
> > > in
> > > > is increasingly moving towards that being expected of all groups, and
> > it
> > > is
> > > > a sign of a willingness to be inclusive.
> > > >
> > > > I do not think that it would be possible to come up with an
> exhaustive
> > > list
> > > > of prohibited behaviors, nor would we likely keep it maintained --
> so I
> > > > think that it would be a great idea to leverage what a larger group
> was
> > > > doing. Add in the fact that this community, both locally, and
> > nationally,
> > > > that our demographics are highly skewed, this is going to be a
> > difficult
> > > > thing to create from the ground up without a base to start with.
> > > >
> > > > There was an 'open source code of conduct' for a while, but they seem
> > to
> > > > have closed the project:
> > https://github.com/todogroup/opencodeofconduct.
> > > I
> > > > really wish that this project was still live, because we could then
> > fork
> > > a
> > > > code of conduct off that, and vote and rebase it periodically to pull
> > in
> > > > core updates for issues our group has not had to deal with.
> > > >
> > > > All of that said, I would be interested in *starting* such a project,
> > if
> > > > others are also interested. We could develop the code and store it on
> > > > Github, allow other groups to fork/pull requests, and develop a
> generic
> > > > code of conduct.  This is probably overkill for what *WE* need, but
> it
> > > is a
> > > > contribution to the larger open source community. Short of starting a
> > > > larger project, I would be interested in helping with the Code of
> > Conduct
> > > > for our group.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 9:13 AM Theron Conrey <theron at conrey.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If we're going to adapt one, I would prefer that we go broad. If
> > there
> > > are
> > > > > folks that are looking for community, we want to make sure we're
> > there
> > > to
> > > > > support them in the most healthy way possible. A Simple "be
> > respectful"
> > > > > isn't going to provide the air cover folks are looking for.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would recommend starting with a couple examples of well defined
> > > codes of
> > > > > conduct from larger OS projects and maybe a few local meetups. Here
> > > are a
> > > > > few good ones imho.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.honeycomb.io/honeycomb-user-community-code-of-conduct/
> > > > > https://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/pages/12061872/Code_of_Conduct/
> > > > >
> > > > > addressing CoC violations is a challenge everywhere, but being
> clear
> > > about
> > > > > it in our CoC is critical.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://reshamas.github.io/managing-our-code-of-conduct/#addressing-violations
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be willing to step in and help get this off the ground if
> > > needed.
> > > > > Either way, I think this is REALLY important that we treat this
> with
> > > the
> > > > > seriousness it deserves, and set a high bar at inclusiveness over
> > > whatever
> > > > > the hell the other option is.
> > > > >
> > > > > -theron
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 1:30 AM Andrew Denner <
> linux-list at upeke.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > As much as I hate a need to even talk about it, in the "Be
> > prepared"
> > > > > > mindset before a problem happens, what are people's opinions on a
> > > simple,
> > > > > > easy code of conduct for the group?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was suggested by a long time member to have some sort of a
> blurb
> > > on
> > > > > our
> > > > > > website something along the lines of "CIALUG members are expected
> > to
> > > get
> > > > > > along with others and be respectful."  I welcome anyone with
> > > wordsmithing
> > > > > > or administrative powers to improve on that statement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They also recommended that we come up with some sort of council
> or
> > > > > > procedure on how to handle any violations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I welcome others' thoughts and input on this issue.
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > > > https://www.cialug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > > https://www.cialug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jeff Chapin
> > > > President, CedarLug, retired
> > > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
> > > > President, UNI Scuba Club
> > > > Senator, NISG, retired
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > https://www.cialug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cialug mailing list
> > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > https://www.cialug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
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