[Cialug] Programming languages: next 10 yrs

Todd Pierce toddcpierce at gmail.com
Sat Apr 29 15:00:00 CDT 2017 

Wow Jim,

That almost went TOO deep :)

Anyway, I'm shocked how my favorite programming language LISP has still
maintained such a following.  It's been constantly updated and used to
implement all sorts of crap.  AutoCAD would be only a simple example.

One would say you can't improve on perfection, but if you look at examples
from the 60's, it wasn't quite as linguistically sound as it is now;  a bit
of a nightmare, in fact.

-T

On Saturday, April 29, 2017, jim kraai <jimgkraai at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I thought about those, too.
>
> Note that those languages are from a couple of cultural existential
> eradications ago.
>
> I suppose an analog would be the metric system.  Since most of the
>  industrialized world's infrastructure was bombed out of existence in WWII,
> it was smarter to rebuild from scratch using a better system of measures.
> Ours and Britain's weren't, so it was too expensive to rebuild using a
> better system, so we still use old systems or a mix of the old and new
>
> Similarly, a lot of cities benefited in the long run from city-wide fires
> that allowed more sensible planning, etc.
>
> We haven't had time for that kind of thing happen to modern computing.  I
> have no idea what form such a thing might take, but history shows that
> it'll probably happen at least once.
>
> Here's a scenario:  For whatever reason, the English language and
> capitalism are deemed degenerate and forbidden.  Everything related is
> smashed and burned.  Whatever culture is dominant will have to create new
> infrastructure, including computers and computer languages, that cannot
> look too much like what was junked.  New forms evolve that come to dominate
> the landscape.  Read Origin of Species or Baxter's Evolution.
>
> If, as Darwin predicted, we will eventually be replaced as a species, I'm
> pretty sure that our computer languages will have a few extinctions, also.
>
> If you don't like my scenario, go ask a sponge, they've seen a few mass
> extinctions over the past seven hundred and fifty million years.  :-D
>
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2017 10:26 AM, "kristau" <kristau at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps look at any languages we consider today to be "dead"
> > languages? In other words, what languages are taught in school, but
> > not really used by a sizeable population. In other, other words, which
> > programming languages are similar to spoken/written languages like
> > Latin, Sumerian, Phoenician, etc.?
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 9:54 AM, jim kraai <jimgkraai at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > Note that programming languages are like religions in that they're
> tough
> > to
> > > get going, but once one does get past the originating prophet hacker,
> > they
> > > almost _never_ die
> > >
> > > I'm still waiting for the movie treatment of Stroustrup.  "You don't
> get
> > > rich writing C.  If you want to get rich, you code in C++."
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 26, 2017 11:50 AM, "Will" <staticphantom at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > All I am getting from this thread is that languages come... But they
> > really
> > > don't go away once they hit critical mass since 2010.
> > >
> > > C++ is reinventing itself by the way if anyone hasn't been following.
> > > Listen to the Cpp podcast if you are interested.
> > >
> > > -Will
> > >
> > > On Apr 26, 2017 11:15, "Andrew Denner" <linux-list at upeke.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On perl it all depends, there are so many different ways to write the
> > same
> > >> code. Some are quite ugly.
> > >>
> > >> I think c# will have good staying power especially with parts of .net
> > > being
> > >> open sourced. Java probably will remain, and the something javascript
> > > based
> > >> will still be around.
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Kyle H <khamil8686 at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Seconded on Perl, I use it daily. It's one of those languages that
> > will
> > >> > remain around forever I one form or another.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:51 PM Jared Brees <fromj2sitsme at msn.com
> <javascript:;>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > I'm a huge Perl fan. Granted, most of what I need scripts for is
> > text
> > >> > > processing, which is what Perl was designed for.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I have yet to see a compelling reason to use something other than
> > Perl
> > >> > for
> > >> > > most server-side stuff.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Jared Brees<http://me.relatedtotechnology.org/> - Squirrel
> > >> Photographer<
> > >> > > http://squirrels.relatedtotechnology.org/>
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ________________________________
> > >> > > From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org <javascript:;> <
> cialug-bounces at cialug.org <javascript:;>> on
> > behalf
> > >> of
> > >> > > Nicolai <nicolai-cialug at chocolatine.org <javascript:;>>
> > >> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 1:10 PM
> > >> > > To: cialug at cialug.org <javascript:;>
> > >> > > Subject: [Cialug] Programming languages: next 10 yrs
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Hey all,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > What are your thoughts on programming languages in the next 10
> > years?
> > >> > > What will be the big winners and losers?  What's the trajectory of
> > the
> > >> > > ecosystem?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I've been learning Go recently.  I like it a lot and think it will
> > be
> > >> my
> > >> > > default language now.  First I rewrote some simple C tools in Go,
> > then
> > >> > > my password manager (also previously in C), next is something
> > bigger.
> > >> > Like
> > >> > > several other languages, Go has a bright future.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Python is nice, but other languages with safety features (like
> Rust
> > > and
> > >> > > Go) are getting big and they are also MUCH faster.  Given its
> > > slowness,
> > >> > > and combined with the awkward handling of Python2 to Python3, I
> > think
> > >> > > Python will contract a bit.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > With Perl it's past time to SELL SELL SELL!  That ship has sailed.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I hope Rust succeeds but I personally don't like the syntax.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > IMO C is the most beautiful language.  I've also come to believe
> > that
> > >> > > programming languages are like shoes: they can be beautiful or
> > >> > > comfortable, or neither, but never both.  C is beautiful but
> unsafe.
> > >> > > Rust is safe but heinous (okay I said it).  Go is safe but kinda
> > >> > > plainly, similar to Python.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > C will be with us for a long time.  Maybe/hopefully C programmers
> > >> > > will begin to code more cautiously, making use of strl{cpy,cat},
> > >> > > OpenBSD pledge(), avoiding malloc, initializing variables, etc. to
> > >> > > reduce problems and create a sort of memory safety that's a lot
> > better
> > >> > > than nothing.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Nicolai
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Tired programmer
> > Coding late into the night
> > The core dump follows
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