[Cialug] Cialug Beginnings

Wed Jul 20 15:12:44 CDT 2011

I never learned straight C, but in college took C++ all the way through to
the senior level, where we manually compiled the C++ down into C (at least
theoretically). Learning that taught me a lot about memory management and
linking, object data structuring, call stacks, how compilers and the people
that write them think, etc. Honestly would never have found the time to
learn that on my own. Along those lines - one class I never took was
assembler, and now it's on my bucket list of concepts to learn.

Just never let people try and convince you that "learning the low level
stuff is the only way you'll be a good programmer", because then I ask them
why they don't fully understand quantum mechanics, and then they shut up. ;)
Also, flame wars can be fun, e.g. vim is better than emacs.

I've never written a line of C or C++ since then, but like to think I can at
least read it and generally understand it. If you want to have a career in
programming, then having some familiar with the low level stuff is probably
helpful (not sure if that's the origin of this conversation at this point,
but I'm too lazy to read back down through).

-Kenny

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 2:53 PM, William Christensen <wirewc at gmail.com>wrote:

> Learning C is good for you. If you love C, you can be happy as a C
> programmer or if you need to learn to work with objects C++. If you hate
> memory management, C# and Java will great you with open arms. Either way,
> when it comes to languages just know what ever language you learn will most
> likely become obsolete. Most programmers will learn several languages and
> thankfully the concepts transfer nicely. If you ask anyone what language
> should you learn in first, unless it's a biased group (lets say, asking a
> Python group what language they recommend) a flame war will break out and
> then never get a straight answer. However the general consensus is stay away
> from languages like Visual Basic.
>
> Maybe we should just mention what NOT to suggest for a for a first
> language.
>
> -Will
>
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:47 PM, John Lengeling wrote:
>
> C is extensively used in Telecommunications/Networking industry, followed
> by C++.****
> ** **
> Also all that you learn in C or C++ helps you when you start learning any C
>  influenced languages like:****
> ** **
> Java, Perl, Python, PHP, JavaScript, Go  etc.****
> ** **
> *From:* cialug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org<cialug-bounces at cialug.org>
> ] *On Behalf Of *Josh More
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2011 1:54 PM
> *To:* Central Iowa Linux Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [Cialug] Cialug Beginnings****
> ** **
>
> I disagree!  Flame flame flame!  ;)
>
>
> More seriously, if you are interested in kernel or embedded development, C
> is fine.  There are other languages you'll want to pick up later, but it's
> not a bad starting point.  Just understand that it's very niche and you will
> experience career flexibility limitation if you choose to focus there.
>
> ****
> ** **
> *Josh More* | Senior Security Consultant - CISSP, GIAC-GSLC Gold,
> GIAC-GCIH
> *Alliance Technologies* | www.AllianceTechnologies.net
> 400 Locust St., Suite 840 | Des Moines, IA 50309
> 515.245.7701 | 888.387.5670 x7701
>
> Blog: Public attacks are on the rise.  Are you protecting yourself?
> http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/blogs/morej
>
> How are we doing? Let us know here:
>
> http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/forms/alliance-technologies-feedback-survey
> ****
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* cialug-bounces at cialug.org [cialug-bounces at cialug.org] on behalf of
> Matthew Nuzum [newz at bearfruit.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2011 13:37
> *To:* Central Iowa Linux Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [Cialug] Cialug Beginnings****
> C is becoming a niche skill these days. It implies only three industries I
> know of: driver/kernel development, embedded development (we're arguably in
> the post C world here too) and algorithm/library/high performance computing
> world. At the least, many have moved on to c++.****
> I'm getting back to opinionated ground, but I don't usually encourage
> people to start out with old technology. The stuff that's bleeding edge
> today will be entering mainstream in 3-4 years and be in demand.****
> C as a language represents all that is archaic and old. At least use
> something object oriented. C++, Java, C# and Go are examples.****
> On Jul 20, 2011 11:38 AM, "Pawel" <pdarowski at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So a hiring manager would like to hear about some personal projects?
> Perhaps
> > one good example of an overcome challenge? I guess it would paint a
> decent
> > picture of the applicant's self-motivation and ability to seek answers.
> >
> > Thanks for all your input. I'm beginning to see that the biggest
> challenge
> > of development [in my eyes] is having a vision or finding that
> interesting
> > problem that needs solving. Once it's found, the rest is research and
> > determination.
> >
> > Two more quick question while I still have the floor! :) How important
> are
> > certifications in the real world? And please, what is the "industry
> > standard" for C certificates? I'm having an impossible time finding a C
> > cert... And my instructors don't really know of any.
> >
> >
> > See you around,
> >
> > Pawel Darowski
> > PDarowski at gmail.com
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Pawel <pdarowski at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Since I cannot attend meetings for quite some time, perhaps the IRC
> >>> channel would be a good place to start taking advantage of the
> knowledge
> >>> that already exists in this group. My question is: how did some of you
> start
> >>> your careers as Linux professionals? My goal is to use Linux in my
> >>> professional life from Day 1.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I too am usually unable to make it to the meetings. I do about one per
> >> year. However I still feel reasonably involved with the group by
> >> participating on the list.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Any tips, stories, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> >>> Thank you,
> >>>
> >>
> >> The common thread among the people I've met through this group is that
> >> we're tinkerers. Find some fascinating problem or challenge and dig into
> it.
> >> Back in "the day" the most interesting linux problem was figuring out
> how to
> >> get it to actually install. This one has been pretty soundly dealt with
> now
> >> though. :-)
> >>
> >> (in my case I owned only about 5 working floppies and lived off campus
> at
> >> ISU (near towers) and had to ride my bike to Durham to download 5
> slackware
> >> disks, then ride back home to complete the next phase of the install -
> >> which, btw, is slower than a 14.4k modem)
> >>
> >> Some people are financially motivated - they want to run PHP or Ruby or
> a
> >> server and make websites for money. A huge number of people I've dealt
> with
> >> are into Games and want to make their own. You'll not find a more
> diverse
> >> set of development tools than is available in Linux (check out PyGame).
> Yet
> >> others are into robotics or hardware hacking which is yet again very
> well
> >> suited for Linux. A few people use Linux to hook up to their TV to
> record
> >> and watch TV shows.
> >>
> >> By the way, this kind of activity looks great to potential employers.
> They
> >> really like to see people who are problem solves and are self-motivated
> to
> >> learn new skills and explore new ways of doing things.
> >>
> >> I will say that there are three trends to keep in mind as you're looking
> >> for interesting challenges:
> >>
> >> 1. We're in an increasingly heterogeneous environment - windows, mac os,
> >> linux, ipads and more all need to talk to each other
> >> 2. The web is either the most important application deployment platform
> >> now, or is right up there (this ties into the prev point)
> >> 3. Mobile is huge (and the number one mobile platform in the world runs
> >> Linux)
> >>
> >> (You asked for opinions...)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Matthew Nuzum
> >> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin and twitter
> >>
> >> ♫ You're never fully dressed without a smile! ♫
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Cialug mailing list
> >> Cialug at cialug.org
> >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >>
> >>****
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>
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-- 
Kenneth Younger III
Founder, Sheer Focus Inc.
e: kenny at sheerfocus.com
p: (515) 367-0001
t: @kenny <http://twitter.com/kenny>
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