I never learned straight C, but in college took C++ all the way through
to the senior level, where we manually compiled the C++ down into C (at
least theoretically). Learning that taught me a lot about memory
management and linking, object data structuring, call stacks, how compilers and the people that write
them think, etc. Honestly would never have found the time to learn that
on my own. Along those lines - one class I never took was assembler, and now it's
on my bucket list of concepts to learn.<br><br>Just never let people try and convince you that "learning the
low level stuff is the only way you'll be a good programmer", because
then I ask them why they don't fully understand quantum mechanics, and
then they shut up. ;) Also, flame wars can be fun, e.g. vim is better than emacs.<br>
<br>
I've never written a line of C or C++ since then, but like to think I
can at least read it and generally understand it. If you want to have a
career in programming, then having some familiar with the low level
stuff is probably helpful (not sure if that's the origin of this
conversation at this point, but I'm too lazy to read back down through). <br><br>-Kenny<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 2:53 PM, William Christensen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wirewc@gmail.com">wirewc@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Learning C is good for you. If you love C, you can be happy as a C programmer or if you need to learn to work with objects C++. If you hate memory management, C# and Java will great you with open arms. Either way, when it comes to languages just know what ever language you learn will most likely become obsolete. Most programmers will learn several languages and thankfully the concepts transfer nicely. If you ask anyone what language should you learn in first, unless it's a biased group (lets say, asking a Python group what language they recommend) a flame war will break out and then never get a straight answer. However the general consensus is stay away from languages like Visual Basic. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Maybe we should just mention what NOT to suggest for a for a first language. </div><div><br></div><div>-Will </div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><div><div>On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:47 PM, John Lengeling wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">C is extensively used in Telecommunications/Networking industry, followed by C++.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Also all that you learn in C or C++ helps you when you start learning any C influenced languages like:<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Java, Perl, Python, PHP, JavaScript, Go etc.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div><div style="border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:none;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-top-style:solid;border-top-color:rgb(181, 196, 223);border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in">
<div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif"><span> </span><a href="mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org" target="_blank">cialug-bounces@cialug.org</a> [<a href="mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org</a>]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Josh More<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Wednesday, July 20, 2011 1:54 PM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Central Iowa Linux Users Group<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [Cialug] Cialug Beginnings<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif">
<u></u> <u></u></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black">I disagree! Flame flame flame! ;)<br>
<br><br>More seriously, if you are interested in kernel or embedded development, C is fine. There are other languages you'll want to pick up later, but it's not a bad starting point. Just understand that it's very niche and you will experience career flexibility limitation if you choose to focus there.<br>
<br><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><b><span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black">Josh More</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black"><span> </span>| Senior Security Consultant - CISSP, GIAC-GSLC Gold, GIAC-GCIH<br>
<b>Alliance Technologies</b><span> </span>|<span> </span><a href="http://www.AllianceTechnologies.net" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:red">www.AllianceTechnologies.net</span></a><br>
400 Locust St., Suite 840 | Des Moines, IA 50309<br><a href="tel:515.245.7701" value="+15152457701" target="_blank">515.245.7701</a> | <a href="tel:888.387.5670%20x7701" value="+18883875670" target="_blank">888.387.5670 x7701</a><br>
<br>Blog: Public attacks are on the rise. Are you protecting yourself?<br><a href="http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/blogs/morej" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:red">http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/blogs/morej</span></a><br>
<br>How are we doing? Let us know here:<br><a href="http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/forms/alliance-technologies-feedback-survey" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/forms/alliance-technologies-feedback-survey</a><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;text-align:center" align="center">
<span style="color:black"><hr align="center" size="3" width="100%"></span></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif">
<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:black"><span> </span><a href="mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">cialug-bounces@cialug.org</a><span> </span>[<a href="mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">cialug-bounces@cialug.org</a>] on behalf of Matthew Nuzum [<a href="mailto:newz@bearfruit.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">newz@bearfruit.org</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Wednesday, July 20, 2011 13:37<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Central Iowa Linux Users Group<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [Cialug] Cialug Beginnings</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="color:black">C is becoming a niche skill these days. It implies only three industries I know of: driver/kernel development, embedded development (we're arguably in the post C world here too) and algorithm/library/high performance computing world. At the least, many have moved on to c++.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="color:black">I'm getting back to opinionated ground, but I don't usually encourage people to start out with old technology. The stuff that's bleeding edge today will be entering mainstream in 3-4 years and be in demand.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="color:black">C as a language represents all that is archaic and old. At least use something object oriented. C++, Java, C# and Go are examples.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif"><span style="color:black">On Jul 20, 2011 11:38 AM, "Pawel" <<a href="mailto:pdarowski@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">pdarowski@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> So a hiring manager would like to hear about some personal projects? Perhaps<br>> one good example of an overcome challenge? I guess it would paint a decent<br>> picture of the applicant's self-motivation and ability to seek answers.<br>
><span> </span><br>> Thanks for all your input. I'm beginning to see that the biggest challenge<br>> of development [in my eyes] is having a vision or finding that interesting<br>> problem that needs solving. Once it's found, the rest is research and<br>
> determination.<br>><span> </span><br>> Two more quick question while I still have the floor! :) How important are<br>> certifications in the real world? And please, what is the "industry<br>> standard" for C certificates? I'm having an impossible time finding a C<br>
> cert... And my instructors don't really know of any.<br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span><br>> See you around,<br>><span> </span><br>> Pawel Darowski<br>><span> </span><a href="mailto:PDarowski@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">PDarowski@gmail.com</a><br>
><span> </span><br>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Matthew Nuzum <<a href="mailto:newz@bearfruit.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">newz@bearfruit.org</a>> wrote:<br>><span> </span><br>
>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Pawel <<a href="mailto:pdarowski@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">pdarowski@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>>><br>>>> Since I cannot attend meetings for quite some time, perhaps the IRC<br>
>>> channel would be a good place to start taking advantage of the knowledge<br>>>> that already exists in this group. My question is: how did some of you start<br>>>> your careers as Linux professionals? My goal is to use Linux in my<br>
>>> professional life from Day 1.<br>>>><br>>><br>>> I too am usually unable to make it to the meetings. I do about one per<br>>> year. However I still feel reasonably involved with the group by<br>
>> participating on the list.<br>>><br>>><br>>>><br>>>> Any tips, stories, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.<br>>>> Thank you,<br>>>><br>>><br>>> The common thread among the people I've met through this group is that<br>
>> we're tinkerers. Find some fascinating problem or challenge and dig into it.<br>>> Back in "the day" the most interesting linux problem was figuring out how to<br>>> get it to actually install. This one has been pretty soundly dealt with now<br>
>> though. :-)<br>>><br>>> (in my case I owned only about 5 working floppies and lived off campus at<br>>> ISU (near towers) and had to ride my bike to Durham to download 5 slackware<br>>> disks, then ride back home to complete the next phase of the install -<br>
>> which, btw, is slower than a 14.4k modem)<br>>><br>>> Some people are financially motivated - they want to run PHP or Ruby or a<br>>> server and make websites for money. A huge number of people I've dealt with<br>
>> are into Games and want to make their own. You'll not find a more diverse<br>>> set of development tools than is available in Linux (check out PyGame). Yet<br>>> others are into robotics or hardware hacking which is yet again very well<br>
>> suited for Linux. A few people use Linux to hook up to their TV to record<br>>> and watch TV shows.<br>>><br>>> By the way, this kind of activity looks great to potential employers. They<br>>> really like to see people who are problem solves and are self-motivated to<br>
>> learn new skills and explore new ways of doing things.<br>>><br>>> I will say that there are three trends to keep in mind as you're looking<br>>> for interesting challenges:<br>>><br>>> 1. We're in an increasingly heterogeneous environment - windows, mac os,<br>
>> linux, ipads and more all need to talk to each other<br>>> 2. The web is either the most important application deployment platform<br>>> now, or is right up there (this ties into the prev point)<br>>> 3. Mobile is huge (and the number one mobile platform in the world runs<br>
>> Linux)<br>>><br>>> (You asked for opinions...)<br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Matthew Nuzum<br>>> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin and twitter<br>>><br>>> ♫ You're never fully dressed without a smile! ♫<br>
>><br>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Cialug mailing list<br>>><span> </span><a href="mailto:Cialug@cialug.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Cialug@cialug.org</a><br>
>><span> </span><a href="http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug</a><br>>><br>>><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Cialug mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Cialug@cialug.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Cialug@cialug.org</a><br>
<a href="http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Cialug mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Cialug@cialug.org">Cialug@cialug.org</a><br>
<a href="http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug" target="_blank">http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><font color="#888888">Kenneth Younger III<br>Founder, Sheer Focus Inc.<br>e: <a href="mailto:kenny@sheerfocus.com" target="_blank">kenny@sheerfocus.com</a><br>p: (515) 367-0001<br>
t: <a href="http://twitter.com/kenny" target="_blank">@kenny</a></font><br>