[Cialug] Server Distros

Sat Mar 27 13:55:31 UTC 2021

Maybe the core issue is product life cycle and not the distro life cycle.
For me the challenge is that when using a lamp stack all those different
pieces have to play nice together, and they tend to be bundled with the
distro.

Yes, I could run my app with docker and make it "portable".... but what if
I want to run a newer version of apache and php?   At that point the
product live cycle comes into play.  If the product life cycle is less than
the distro life cycle, then it's not an issue.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 8:16 AM Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the core issue is vended software needs to learn how to deal with
> it first. If purchase enterprise software, it is common for the vendor to
> pin the requirements on a version -- "Supported on RHEL 7.1-7.9" or
> similar. If parts of the OS, like the kernel or glibc are updated
> 'rolling', it becomes much harder for the vendor to communicate support, or
> to predict when things can break.
>
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 2:32 PM Theron Conrey <theron at conrey.org> wrote:
>
> > I think the idea of a release cycle is dead, and distros are trying to
> > figure out how to deal with it.
> >
> > -theron
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 2:00 PM Barry Von Ahsen <vonahsen at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > yeah, IMHO, they've totally botched the announcement of this, and left
> a
> > > lot of room for FUD and confusion.  I suspect the reality will be
> > somewhere
> > > between fedora's 18 month support cycle and centos' 8ish years.
> > >
> > > if you're looking for something you only have to upgrade every 5
> years, I
> > > think ubuntu LTS is the only option, even "slow" debian is pretty good
> > at 2
> > > year cycles, which becomes ~4 if you follow through the oldstable
> cycle.
> > >  but with (mostly) seamless dist-upgrades, 2y doesn't matter to me, and
> > if
> > > centos stream inherits that from fedora, that'd be awesome
> > >
> > > it's an interesting dichotomy as lots of folks move to containerization
> > > and measure lifetimes in days rather than years :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -barrry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Mar 26, 2021, at 1:29 PM, Theron Conrey <theron at conrey.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Being a former redhatter, and working at a company with arguably one
> of
> > > the
> > > > largest linux (centos) deployments in the world, it's always curious
> to
> > > > hear where people have opinions shaped. I was asking because the
> centos
> > > > announcement caused some serious internal conversations but no
> > > > noticeable thoughts of "this is now no longer production ready", and
> > > given
> > > > the fact that it's basically moving to a model that looks a lot like
> > > > OpenSUSE today, the pushback from the broader community still causes
> me
> > > to
> > > > scratch my head.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure why folks think that somehow Redhat "needs" to provide a
> > > > binary compatible distro of RHEL in order to somehow stay relevant,
> but
> > > > you're right, there are always viable alternatives! It's just strange
> > to
> > > > me, and I totally am super curious about where it comes from, that
> > folks
> > > > somehow ditch CentOS simply due to it now feeding into RHEL like
> fedora
> > > vs.
> > > > being a downstream zero cost clone of their flagship product.
> > > >
> > > > I can name at least two major network switching vendors that base
> their
> > > > products on Fedora, and I've always liked having the upstream
> > flexibility
> > > > of RHEL, so when I hear it's "not stable" I always wonder what that
> > means
> > > > to the speaker.
> > > >
> > > > Ubuntu is dope. If you moved everything over and it works for you,
> > > awesome!
> > > > I just think making the decision based on an idea that RH is somehow
> > > > destroying CentOS vs. simply adjusting it to better align with
> software
> > > > development and it's business model to be a bit hyperbolic. I get it.
> > The
> > > > change was NOT messaged great. I was on the outside looking in when
> it
> > > was
> > > > announced and I was scratching my head too lol, but I think it's
> > healthy
> > > > overall for the needed evolution of RHEL in a container/continuous
> > > > deployment world.
> > > >
> > > > anywho, thanks for your thoughts!
> > > >
> > > > -theron
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 1:14 PM Dave Hala <dave at 58ghz.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Nothing against Centos 7.   I choose rhel8, because I was doing some
> > new
> > > >> projects and it made sense to me to start out on the latest version.
> > I
> > > >> had assumed there would be centos 8... and there was... for a while.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 1:02 PM Kyle H <khamil8686 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> it is no longer stable, it’s between dev and experimental or
> > > something...
> > > >>> not sure if i got the branches right off top of my head but
> > essentially
> > > >>> that, and the fact ubuntu is gaining steam, i think rhel will have
> to
> > > >>> reverse its decision on changing centos and destroying it. just
> > > installed
> > > >>> ubuntu server 20.04 and getting rid of the old centos server. :p
> > > >>>
> > > >>> have a good day
> > > >>> kyle
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 12:56 PM Theron Conrey <theron at conrey.org>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> As a former redhatter, I'm genuinely curious what makes you say
> that
> > > >>> CentOS
> > > >>>> won't be an option anymore? I'd love to understand your thoughts
> > here!
> > > >> If
> > > >>>> it's not something you want to talk about on the lug chat, you can
> > > >> email
> > > >>> me
> > > >>>> directly.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> To your question though, I'm using a mix of fedora and centos for
> > > >>> personal
> > > >>>> server workloads.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -theron
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 11:39 AM Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> What are y'all using for server distros these days? I've been
> > > >> thinking
> > > >>>>> about what to go with for the future, since my old default
> answer,
> > > >>>> CentOS,
> > > >>>>> won't be an option anymore.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Maybe a CentOS replacement. Maybe jump to Ubuntu or Debian. Any
> > > >>> thoughts
> > > >>>> on
> > > >>>>> Ubuntu Server vs Debian? I don't know anything about that side of
> > the
> > > >>>>> Linuxverse.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> Todd
> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> > > >>
> > > >>
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>
> --
> Jeff Chapin
> President, CedarLug, retired
> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
> President, UNI Scuba Club
> Senator, NISG, retired
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