[Cialug] Rookie installer having trouble
Sean Flattery
sean.r.flattery at gmail.com
Sun Aug 17 13:06:33 CDT 2014
I'm glad to hear you got the SSD detection working.
I'll second the recommendation for using gparted. In addition to having
its own live cd it's usually packaged with distros like Ubuntu. After
using Clonezilla to copy the data to a new hard drive, load up gparted and
extend that partition into your free space. Make sure you leave enough
space for that Linux install you'd like to do. You can also use gparted to
create that data partition for shared storage between Windows and Linux.
You'll probably want to use a Windows friendly format like NTFS for that.
To answer your question about install order, always install Windows first
and then Linux, as the Windows boot loader doesn't want you to load up
another OS. Grub however will do that just fine. Picasa used to have
Linux support, but they dropped it two years ago. You might be able to
load up that old version if it'll help with the wife. Although if you're
only using Windows for Picasa, you could just install Linux, create a VM,
and load Windows from within that.
Sean
---------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:00:50 +0000
From: <murraymckee at wellsfargo.com>
To: <cialug at cialug.org>
Subject: [Cialug] Rookie installer having trouble
Message-ID:
<033047B9BEF0FA4CAED4732C486C39004B9F65E3 at MSGEXSV21109.ent.
wfb.bank.corp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I had really hoped to get further before I had to ask for help, but I
didn't get that far.
Here's the situation.
I have two Windows XP laptops that I'd like to set up to dual boot to Linux
and XP. My wife doesn't want to learn something other than Picasa right
now. Once I get my laptop converted I'll do my wife's laptop. The plan is
to use XP & Picasa when not connected to the internet and Linux, Firefox,
Thunderbird when connecting to the internet.
They have 40G hard drives. Mine is nearly full, the other one has some
space.
I bought a pair of 64G USB drives. One to use as backup. I copied the 17G
of data from my computer to one of the USB drives. I've also copied it to
a USB external hard drive as well. Two backups is better than one.
I bought a pair of 256G Crucial MX100 SSD to replace the hard drives. I
bought a Sabrent USB3 to SATA/IDE connector. (I think USB-DSC8 is the
model or part number)
Here's what I did last Saturday afternoon at church where I can access
WIFI. Out in the country we have dialup for personal e-mail. Well, I
guess it was 2 Saturdays ago now.
I downloaded TUXBOOT & ? to do the drive copy from the hard drive to the
USB. (I tried to use EZ GIG IV but it didn't support the Sabrent
connector.) I can't find the down load of the copy code on my laptop, so I
must have downloaded it directly to the USB, and it's wiped out now.
I rebooted to TUX and copied from the hard drive to the SSD, or so I
thought. It ran for 45 minutes and failed. I deleted some stuff, ran
defrag, and tried again. It failed again. After several hours of work,
finding what to use instead of what I thought I was going to use,
downloading and installing it, and finally running it and failing twice, I
gave up and went home. It was well past supper time already.
So, this afternoon I set the laptop back up here at home. I'm using my
work laptop for this e-mail as it has a cell modem. I connected the SSD
through Sabrent connector and looked at my two USB drives. One contained
my backup data as expected and had a capacity of 61G, 17G used.
I looked at the other one, expecting to see the TUXBOOT & ?, but found a
copy of my "C" drive, and no tuxboot to be seen. What surprised me even
more that the USB drive was formatted to 40G and completely full. I now
guess that the USB is allocated in 4K blocks and the hard drive is
allocated in something smaller and that caused the backup error. Although
both are NTFS file systems.
What concerns me is that I can NOT see the SSD, even though there are two
lights on the block at the other end of the cable from the USB connector
that plugs into the laptop. One appears to be indicating that there is a
USB connection, and the other is labeled SATA. I'm assuming that means
that the block is talking to the SATA SSD drive.
Since Windows can't see the SSD drive I'm guessing that TUXBOOT & ? can't
either and I inadvertently selected the USB when I started the copy. I
didn't connect the SSD drive to the laptop until after I'd shut it down in
preparation to boot TUXBOOT from the USB drive.
I really wanted to make two or maybe three partitions on the SSD, one for
XP and one for Linux, and possibly one for common data where both could
read and write, well, one at a time, whichever one was booted at the time.
But if I use the same thing I used last weekend I'll end up with the same
problem again. Even if I figure out how to see the SSD, I'll get it
formatted down to 40G and lose the other 200G of space and have no room to
install Linux.
So, the two questions I have for the computer wizards out there are:
1. Has anybody used a Sabrent USB-DSC8 to connect to an external SSD, and
how do I get the computer to recognize the SSD drive?
2. How do I copy Windows to the Curcial SSD without formatting it down to
40G so I have room for Linux and data expansion? Or should I install Linux
on the new SSD first and then copy the XP system in?
Or am I going about this all wrong and I need to start over farther back.
Years ago I had a 200G hard drive on my home desktop computer, when that
was huge, and it became flaky. I bought a 1T drive to replace it and
copied the entire drive over using the software that came with the new
drive. Now I can only access 200G on my 1T drive. At the time it didn't
worry me as I was more concerned with the drive being flaky. In the
intervening years I've used up most of the 200G and I'd love to use more
space on my desktop, but I can't get at it. I don't want the same thing to
happen to my SSD. Losing 1/3 of my USB is a nuisance. Losing 80% of my
SSD is not acceptable, especially when I need more space now.
The other thing that happened was while I was trying to download TUXBOOT &
? I seem to have gotten way more than I wanted and every time I connect to
the internet I get a constant stream of popup windows with advertising that
I have to keep closing and then they open a browser window even though I
said close. I tried to uninstall some of it, but it seems to have deleted
something that is required to uninstall software and I can't uninstall
anything now. Bummer!
I'm sorry about such a long rambling e-mail, but I thought with enough
details there was a better chance of getting an answer than resolves the
problem.
TIA,
Murray R. McKee
Operating Systems Analyst
Mainframe/Midrange Services
Wells Fargo Compute Platform Services | 800 Walnut Street | Des Moines,
IA 50309-3605
MAC N0001-037
Tel 515-557-6127 | Cell 515-343-6630 | Fax 515-557-6046 | Text pager:
5153436630 at vtext.com
MurrayMcKee at WellsFargo.com
TOG Recognition
------------------------------
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 6:23 PM, <cialug-request at cialug.org> wrote:
> Send Cialug mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Backup of user machines (L. V. Lammert)
> 2. Re: Backup of user machines (Pixie)
> 3. Re: Backup of user machines (c)
> 4. Rookie installer having trouble (murraymckee at wellsfargo.com)
> 5. Re: Backup of user machines (Scott Yates)
> 6. Re: Backup of user machines (Scott Yates)
> 7. Re: Backup of user machines (L. V. Lammert)
> 8. Re: Backup of user machines (Scott Yates)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:09:18 -0500 (CDT)
> From: "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net>
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group <cialug at cialug.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Backup of user machines
> Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1408161208260.21637 at Mail.omnitec.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2014, Pixie wrote:
>
> > It's more in the category of "DropBox replacement" than "backup
> > utility", but BitTorrent Sync has been working pretty well around these
> > parts.
> >
> Interesting suggestion, .. !! Have you built any 'customized' installers
> that will include the setup info?
>
> Lee
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:28:56 -0500
> From: Pixie <pix at kepibu.org>
> To: cialug at cialug.org
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Backup of user machines
> Message-ID: <53EF94D8.4070100 at kepibu.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 2014.08.16 12:09, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> > On Sat, 16 Aug 2014, Pixie wrote:
> >
> >> It's more in the category of "DropBox replacement" than "backup
> >> utility", but BitTorrent Sync has been working pretty well around these
> >> parts.
> >>
> > Interesting suggestion, .. !! Have you built any 'customized' installers
> > that will include the setup info?
>
> Alas, no. The small number of machines involved, the low rate of
> hardware churn, and my not even remotely being a Windows developer,
> meant it would have taken /way/ longer to automate than to just do the
> installs manually.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 13:47:14 -0500
> From: c <cbpurcell at gmail.com>
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group <cialug at cialug.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Backup of user machines
> Message-ID:
> <CAGsp=u=tRsFnUy+eRyy7LG+hb48=+
> 2bw0_Cf_7czYAXEiQh2xg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Haven't found the how tos, but according to this page you can back up to
> any computer or drive with internet access.
> http://www.code42.com/crashplan/features/backup-destinations/#offsite
>
> Sorry for the brevity. On a plane right now, typing from my phone.
> On Aug 16, 2014 11:25 AM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 16 Aug 2014, c wrote:
> >
> > > Crashplan. http://www.code42.com/crashplan/
> > >
> > Didn't know it could use our servers - can you point me to those docs?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > > Purcell
> > > On Aug 16, 2014 10:39 AM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Would like to have a 'user level' backup system for some of our
> users;
> > > > rsnapshot is fine for servers, but managing backups and restoring a
> > file
> > > > is not something for a user.
> > > >
> > > > Any recommendations for a 'user friendly' system? Need cross (i.e.
> > Windoze
> > > > 8), .. and use our servers for storage.
> > > >
> > > > TIA!
> > > >
> > > > Lee
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cialug mailing list
> > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ==============================================
> > Leland V. Lammert lvl at omnitec.net
> > Chief Scientist Omnitec Corporation
> > Network/Internet Consultants www.omnitec.net
> > ==============================================
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cialug mailing list
> > Cialug at cialug.org
> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:00:50 +0000
> From: <murraymckee at wellsfargo.com>
> To: <cialug at cialug.org>
> Subject: [Cialug] Rookie installer having trouble
> Message-ID:
>
> <033047B9BEF0FA4CAED4732C486C39004B9F65E3 at MSGEXSV21109.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I had really hoped to get further before I had to ask for help, but I
> didn't get that far.
>
> Here's the situation.
>
> I have two Windows XP laptops that I'd like to set up to dual boot to
> Linux and XP. My wife doesn't want to learn something other than Picasa
> right now. Once I get my laptop converted I'll do my wife's laptop. The
> plan is to use XP & Picasa when not connected to the internet and Linux,
> Firefox, Thunderbird when connecting to the internet.
>
> They have 40G hard drives. Mine is nearly full, the other one has some
> space.
>
> I bought a pair of 64G USB drives. One to use as backup. I copied the
> 17G of data from my computer to one of the USB drives. I've also copied it
> to a USB external hard drive as well. Two backups is better than one.
>
> I bought a pair of 256G Crucial MX100 SSD to replace the hard drives. I
> bought a Sabrent USB3 to SATA/IDE connector. (I think USB-DSC8 is the
> model or part number)
>
> Here's what I did last Saturday afternoon at church where I can access
> WIFI. Out in the country we have dialup for personal e-mail. Well, I
> guess it was 2 Saturdays ago now.
>
> I downloaded TUXBOOT & ? to do the drive copy from the hard drive to the
> USB. (I tried to use EZ GIG IV but it didn't support the Sabrent
> connector.) I can't find the down load of the copy code on my laptop, so I
> must have downloaded it directly to the USB, and it's wiped out now.
>
> I rebooted to TUX and copied from the hard drive to the SSD, or so I
> thought. It ran for 45 minutes and failed. I deleted some stuff, ran
> defrag, and tried again. It failed again. After several hours of work,
> finding what to use instead of what I thought I was going to use,
> downloading and installing it, and finally running it and failing twice, I
> gave up and went home. It was well past supper time already.
>
> So, this afternoon I set the laptop back up here at home. I'm using my
> work laptop for this e-mail as it has a cell modem. I connected the SSD
> through Sabrent connector and looked at my two USB drives. One contained
> my backup data as expected and had a capacity of 61G, 17G used.
>
> I looked at the other one, expecting to see the TUXBOOT & ?, but found a
> copy of my "C" drive, and no tuxboot to be seen. What surprised me even
> more that the USB drive was formatted to 40G and completely full. I now
> guess that the USB is allocated in 4K blocks and the hard drive is
> allocated in something smaller and that caused the backup error. Although
> both are NTFS file systems.
>
> What concerns me is that I can NOT see the SSD, even though there are two
> lights on the block at the other end of the cable from the USB connector
> that plugs into the laptop. One appears to be indicating that there is a
> USB connection, and the other is labeled SATA. I'm assuming that means
> that the block is talking to the SATA SSD drive.
>
> Since Windows can't see the SSD drive I'm guessing that TUXBOOT & ? can't
> either and I inadvertently selected the USB when I started the copy. I
> didn't connect the SSD drive to the laptop until after I'd shut it down in
> preparation to boot TUXBOOT from the USB drive.
>
> I really wanted to make two or maybe three partitions on the SSD, one for
> XP and one for Linux, and possibly one for common data where both could
> read and write, well, one at a time, whichever one was booted at the time.
> But if I use the same thing I used last weekend I'll end up with the same
> problem again. Even if I figure out how to see the SSD, I'll get it
> formatted down to 40G and lose the other 200G of space and have no room to
> install Linux.
>
> So, the two questions I have for the computer wizards out there are:
>
> 1. Has anybody used a Sabrent USB-DSC8 to connect to an external SSD, and
> how do I get the computer to recognize the SSD drive?
>
> 2. How do I copy Windows to the Curcial SSD without formatting it down to
> 40G so I have room for Linux and data expansion? Or should I install Linux
> on the new SSD first and then copy the XP system in?
>
> Or am I going about this all wrong and I need to start over farther back.
>
> Years ago I had a 200G hard drive on my home desktop computer, when that
> was huge, and it became flaky. I bought a 1T drive to replace it and
> copied the entire drive over using the software that came with the new
> drive. Now I can only access 200G on my 1T drive. At the time it didn't
> worry me as I was more concerned with the drive being flaky. In the
> intervening years I've used up most of the 200G and I'd love to use more
> space on my desktop, but I can't get at it. I don't want the same thing to
> happen to my SSD. Losing 1/3 of my USB is a nuisance. Losing 80% of my
> SSD is not acceptable, especially when I need more space now.
>
> The other thing that happened was while I was trying to download TUXBOOT &
> ? I seem to have gotten way more than I wanted and every time I connect to
> the internet I get a constant stream of popup windows with advertising that
> I have to keep closing and then they open a browser window even though I
> said close. I tried to uninstall some of it, but it seems to have deleted
> something that is required to uninstall software and I can't uninstall
> anything now. Bummer!
>
> I'm sorry about such a long rambling e-mail, but I thought with enough
> details there was a better chance of getting an answer than resolves the
> problem.
>
> TIA,
>
> Murray R. McKee
>
> Operating Systems Analyst
> Mainframe/Midrange Services
>
> Wells Fargo Compute Platform Services | 800 Walnut Street | Des
> Moines, IA 50309-3605
> MAC N0001-037
> Tel 515-557-6127 | Cell 515-343-6630 | Fax 515-557-6046 | Text pager:
> 5153436630 at vtext.com
>
> MurrayMcKee at WellsFargo.com
>
> TOG Recognition
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 15:57:13 -0500
> From: Scott Yates <Scott at yatesframe.com>
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group <cialug at cialug.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Backup of user machines
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAM_0QiXTT+dCvGCorH6HCEPFS5sW2MVR7A+v7cf+hxPbdSEBBw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I will give CrashPlan my +1 as well. Works great for us. We have a
> freenas install running and CrashPlan is running in a jail. From there you
> just install the client, and point it at the name of the freenas install.
> Works great!
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 1:47 PM, c <cbpurcell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Haven't found the how tos, but according to this page you can back up to
> > any computer or drive with internet access.
> > http://www.code42.com/crashplan/features/backup-destinations/#offsite
> >
> > Sorry for the brevity. On a plane right now, typing from my phone.
> > On Aug 16, 2014 11:25 AM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2014, c wrote:
> > >
> > > > Crashplan. http://www.code42.com/crashplan/
> > > >
> > > Didn't know it could use our servers - can you point me to those docs?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > > > Purcell
> > > > On Aug 16, 2014 10:39 AM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Would like to have a 'user level' backup system for some of our
> > users;
> > > > > rsnapshot is fine for servers, but managing backups and restoring a
> > > file
> > > > > is not something for a user.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any recommendations for a 'user friendly' system? Need cross (i.e.
> > > Windoze
> > > > > 8), .. and use our servers for storage.
> > > > >
> > > > > TIA!
> > > > >
> > > > > Lee
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Cialug mailing list
> > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ==============================================
> > > Leland V. Lammert lvl at omnitec.net
> > > Chief Scientist Omnitec Corporation
> > > Network/Internet Consultants www.omnitec.net
> > > ==============================================
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cialug mailing list
> > > Cialug at cialug.org
> > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cialug mailing list
> > Cialug at cialug.org
> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 15:57:55 -0500
> From: Scott Yates <Scott at yatesframe.com>
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group <cialug at cialug.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Backup of user machines
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAM_0QiWxnVm1UeStbx9tLRzHs56HrSM7UjNwXSv0UgDOkrrPSQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Forgot to add it is free if you backup to your own box.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Scott Yates <Scott at yatesframe.com> wrote:
>
> > I will give CrashPlan my +1 as well. Works great for us. We have a
> > freenas install running and CrashPlan is running in a jail. From there
> you
> > just install the client, and point it at the name of the freenas install.
> > Works great!
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 1:47 PM, c <cbpurcell at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Haven't found the how tos, but according to this page you can back up to
> >> any computer or drive with internet access.
> >> http://www.code42.com/crashplan/features/backup-destinations/#offsite
> >>
> >> Sorry for the brevity. On a plane right now, typing from my phone.
> >> On Aug 16, 2014 11:25 AM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, 16 Aug 2014, c wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Crashplan. http://www.code42.com/crashplan/
> >> > >
> >> > Didn't know it could use our servers - can you point me to those docs?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
> >> > Lee
> >> >
> >> > > Purcell
> >> > > On Aug 16, 2014 10:39 AM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Would like to have a 'user level' backup system for some of our
> >> users;
> >> > > > rsnapshot is fine for servers, but managing backups and restoring
> a
> >> > file
> >> > > > is not something for a user.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Any recommendations for a 'user friendly' system? Need cross (i.e.
> >> > Windoze
> >> > > > 8), .. and use our servers for storage.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > TIA!
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Lee
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > Cialug mailing list
> >> > > > Cialug at cialug.org
> >> > > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >> > > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Cialug mailing list
> >> > > Cialug at cialug.org
> >> > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > ==============================================
> >> > Leland V. Lammert lvl at omnitec.net
> >> > Chief Scientist Omnitec Corporation
> >> > Network/Internet Consultants www.omnitec.net
> >> > ==============================================
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Cialug mailing list
> >> > Cialug at cialug.org
> >> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Cialug mailing list
> >> Cialug at cialug.org
> >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 18:17:11 -0500 (CDT)
> From: "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net>
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group <cialug at cialug.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Backup of user machines
> Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1408161816140.21637 at Mail.omnitec.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2014, Scott Yates wrote:
>
> > Forgot to add it is free if you backup to your own box.
> >
> The cost is $10 per month per computer, .. no option for your own storage.
>
> WAY too expensive, .. *especially* when storeGrid is less than 1/10 of
> that!
>
> Lee
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 18:24:53 -0500
> From: Scott Yates <Scott at yatesframe.com>
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group <cialug at cialug.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Backup of user machines
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAM_0QiUc0L80TpMNPLtW7ELYvcw1nrN-Yqun5mj_v0LxaKzf8Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> No, it is free if you use your own boxes to backup.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 6:17 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 16 Aug 2014, Scott Yates wrote:
> >
> > > Forgot to add it is free if you backup to your own box.
> > >
> > The cost is $10 per month per computer, .. no option for your own
> storage.
> >
> > WAY too expensive, .. *especially* when storeGrid is less than 1/10 of
> > that!
> >
> > Lee
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cialug mailing list
> > Cialug at cialug.org
> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >
>
>
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>
>
> End of Cialug Digest, Vol 112, Issue 16
> ***************************************
>
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