[Cialug] LUG Grill Out Tuesday

Tue Jun 11 14:46:00 CDT 2013

WARNING: BORING, read further only if you're entertained by our
intricate legal systems

I was halfheartedly referring to different jurisdictions of different
agencies so as not to confuse them with where we were actually going
to be.

Iowa DNR rules don't apply to our stated use of the Cottonwood
Recreation Area.  It's a federal facility under federal rules.

If we were fishing, that'd be a different set of rules, as the Corps
of Engineers defers to local, Iowa DNR, fishing regulations:
http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/employees/visitassist/pdfs/nwd-sp-saylorvillefishing.pdf
and they get even more specific here, as these regulations are only
for that portion of the Des Moines river below the dam where we'll be
at but still within the federal boundaries.  Crazy, huh?!

If we were using Jester's facilities, we'd be under a different set
of, get this, sets of rules:
- The golf course lodge:
http://www.jesterparklodge.com/Fees_files/Policies%20and%20Regulations.pdf
where alcohol is only allowed if it's provided by Christiani’s
Catering during a "reserved event"
- Otherwise, there seems to be no alcohol allowed at all
http://www.polkcountyiowa.gov/media/10322/park-rules.pdf

Here is the applicable federal regulation for Corps of Engineers
facilities:  http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/327.12 "The
possession and/or consumption of alcoholic beverages on any portion of
the project land or waters, or the entire project, may be prohibited
when designated and posted by the District Commander."  And, to the
best of my knowledge, a prohibition against the otherwise legal use
(that is to say, by people of legal age in the local jurisdiction) of
alcoholic beverages has not been posted, nor is there an applicable
county-wide prohibition against the consumption of alcohol.

Note, also, that most of the above cited documents state that they're
incomplete or that they're summaries of other sets of laws.

We may be approached by Corps of Engineers, Iowa DNR, or Polk County
Sheriff's personnel, all of whom have some kind of jurisdiction for
where we'll be, for a 'health and safety' type of check, who would be
responsible for enforcing applicable federal, state, county, and
facility rules.  So, let's be careful and not bring anything that'd
spark the interest of the local gendarmes.

Don't worry, the way things are these days, you can't help but break a
number of laws en route to, while at, and on the way home from the
picnic!  :-)

--jim

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM, David Champion <dchamp1337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the clarification.
>
> FYI, Cottonwood Recreation Area is not directly connected to Jester Park.
> it is South of the Saylorville dam. the map link that Jim included earlier
> in this thread does point to the correct location.
>
> -dc
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:27 PM, jim kraai <jimgkraai at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Good question.  To answer your question of whether byob is allowed:  Yes.
>>
>> How I arrived at this conclusion:
>> 1. it is not forbidden for that area--I looked it up ( http://goo.gl/3Ngyx)
>> 2. note the applicable western legal principal is that that which is
>> not forbidden is permissible
>> 3. note to reinforce #s 1 & 2, byob is explicitly forbidden in other
>> areas of Saylorville ( http://goo.gl/B3ffZ )
>>
>> The use of Saylorville Lake is under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Army
>> Corps of Engineers.  Jester Park is under the jurisdiction of the Polk
>> County Commissioner.
>>
>> --jim
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:09 PM, David Champion <dchamp1337 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Important question: since this is vBeers, and it's a public park, will we
>> > be allowed to byob?
>> >
>> > -dc
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 12:07 PM, jim kraai <jimgkraai at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm looking forward to this!
>> >> On Jun 11, 2013 11:17 AM, "kristau" <kristau at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Friendly reminder, this is tonight!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:59 PM, kristau <kristau at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Aaaaaand I've updated the CIALUG Web site as well. Let's get the
>> word
>> >> out
>> >> > > and get a big group!
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:50 PM, kristau <kristau at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> I've submitted this to vBeers.org. It sometimes takes a couple of
>> days
>> >> > >> for him to approve those posts, so I hope it gets out there in
>> time!
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:27 AM, David Champion <
>> dchamp1337 at gmail.com
>> >> > >wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>> I'll try to make it.
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> Cottonwood is on the Neil Smith bike trail for those who may be
>> >> > inclined
>> >> > >>> to
>> >> > >>> pedal there. Assuming the trail isn't under water and it's not
>> >> raining.
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> -dc
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:58 AM, kristau <kristau at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> > Hurrah for Do-ocracy! Thank you, Jim!
>> >> > >>> >
>> >> > >>> > Spread the word far and wide, folks, and bring a buck or two for
>> >> Jim.
>> >> > >>> >
>> >> > >>> >
>> >> > >>> > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:24 AM, jim kraai <jimgkraai at gmail.com
>> >
>> >> > >>> wrote:
>> >> > >>> >
>> >> > >>> > > Who:    You plus whoever you care to feed--I'm bringing my two
>> >> sons
>> >> > >>> > >
>> >> > >>> > > What:   CIALUG vbeers Grill Out.
>> >> > >>> > >        I'm supplying charcoal and tinfoil (not for hats,
>> recent
>> >> > news
>> >> > >>> > > notwithstanding)
>> >> > >>> > >        Bring your own food, drinks, table settings, etc.
>> >> > >>> > >
>> >> > >>> > > Where:  Cottonwood Recreation Area's shelter #5
>> >> > >>> > >   coords:  41.690847,-93.674141
>> >> > >>> > >   gmaps:  http://goo.gl/maps/JTxPM
>> >> > >>> > >   web:      http://goo.gl/Q66Ky
>> >> > >>> > >
>> >> > >>> > > When:   Tuesday, June 11 (charcoal to be started at 6PM)
>> >> > >>> > >
>> >> > >>> > > Why:    It's Spring and we need some sun--bring sunblock
>> >> > >>> > >
>> >> > >>> > > I paid the $50 for the shelter and will supply the charcoal.
>>  If
>> >> > >>> you'd
>> >> > >>> > > like to chip in a few bucks, I'd appreciate it.  Thank you!
>> >> > >>> > >
>> >> > >>> > > --jim
>> >> > >>> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > >>> > > Cialug mailing list
>> >> > >>> > > Cialug at cialug.org
>> >> > >>> > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>> >> > >>> > >
>> >> > >>> >
>> >> > >>> >
>> >> > >>> >
>> >> > >>> > --
>> >> > >>> > Tired programmer
>> >> > >>> > Coding late into the night
>> >> > >>> > The core dump follows
>> >> > >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > >>> > Cialug mailing list
>> >> > >>> > Cialug at cialug.org
>> >> > >>> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>> >> > >>> >
>> >> > >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > >>> Cialug mailing list
>> >> > >>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> >> > >>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> --
>> >> > >> Tired programmer
>> >> > >> Coding late into the night
>> >> > >> The core dump follows
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > > Tired programmer
>> >> > > Coding late into the night
>> >> > > The core dump follows
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Tired programmer
>> >> > Coding late into the night
>> >> > The core dump follows
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Cialug mailing list
>> >> > Cialug at cialug.org
>> >> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Cialug mailing list
>> >> Cialug at cialug.org
>> >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Cialug mailing list
>> > Cialug at cialug.org
>> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>> _______________________________________________
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