[Cialug] _nomap for wireless networks

[Zachary Kotlarek]

On Nov 15, 2011, at 6:39 PM, Barry Von Ahsen wrote:

> true, but presumably you don't have an army of spies, and aren't selling the results.  I think there are some interesting ideas here about economies of scale.  one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic - each of us is doing what google is doing when we open our wireless connection widgets, just on a tiny scale.  but when does it become a tragedy?  when 10,000 of us do it?  when 10,000 strategically placed individuals do it?  an individual facebook status update is okay, but pleaserobme.com is bad?


Location/WiFi relation information is useful both to Google and others, and having a more comprehensive database is clearly more valuable. That's the case with a lot of public data, and I don't think you'd like the consequences of telling the public they can't organize to enhance their data collection capabilities.

But I think that's mostly a moot point -- I don't think the Google WarSniffing itself is a problem on any scale -- it's just a tool, and like all tools it can be used for good or evil. WarSniffing and collecting credentials for resale or blackmail or the like would clearly be bad, and if Google did that I'd be up in arms. But there are good things you can do with it too -- I'd argue that using non-personal UIDs to provide location services is a fairly good thing, but even if you disagree with that there are even more benign uses: anonymous WiFi coverage maps, notification to users of insecure networks, studies of interference in high-density areas, etc.


> another strained analogy: I'm annoyed the DOT won't give me people's addresses and license plates (something about a warrant, I don't know).  so I'm going to wander around at night taking pictures of people's cars in their driveways, and in parking garages/lots during the day.  I personally can't do much (unless I'm realllllly determined), but what if I crowd source it?  what if I co-opt a delivery company to do it for me?


The DoT shouldn't hand out that information because vehicle owners are compelled by law to provide it -- they have no way to protect their own privacy so the DoT must do it on their behalf. If registration was optional I'd have no problem with the DoT handing out my information, so long as they didn't make representations to the contrary.


> I guess I disagree - the broadcast nature makes it a little hazy, but it still seems a little tresspass-y to me.  in my example, is the onus on me to hide my car from the street?  the SCotUS seems to think so WRT GPS tracking :)


Yes, I think it's your responsibility to hide your car or WiFi or Star Wars DVD collection from public view if you don't want people to see it. I can see why you might disagree, but I think the potential harm in requiring others to look away/forget what they've seen at your demand is much greater than the harm you might suffer by by forgetting to close your garage door.

As for tracking, the cops are welcome to follow your around anywhere they like on public roads. I'm much more worried that GPS tracking allows a change to that traditional protection; I can park my car behind a fence to hide it from public view, but it would still show up on a GPS track, thus granting new powers to the police to track me in private (not to mention the reduced cost of tracking and therefore the likely increased use).

	Zach

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