[Cialug] OT: Deep packet inspection meets 'Net neutrality, CALEA

[Brandon Griffis]

If you want to blame government.  How about providing Walmart massive
subsidies which allows them to come into the sub 5k towns and make a profit
while undercutting all local business?  I don't think government
intervention is always a great idea, but I also think that it IS sometimes
nescessary.  Such as in the case of ensuring competition (which to me
includes some amount of Net Neutrality).

I don't think of Walmart as an evil entity.  As you said, it's a business
with shareholders whose purpose is to make money.  However, most
corporations have fallen into the method of doing whatever is necessary to
show a substantial growth over the short term.  That's what sells shares.
That's why companies have massive layoffs when in 3-4 years it will damage
the business.  Because in 6 months it will look really good in the stock
report.

The trend for the sub 5k towns has been that Walmart will come in.
Eliminate all other business while making money off subsidies.  Then, with
competition eliminated, will jack up prices to keep making money.  With so
many other jobs lost the town sees an economic decline over the next few
years and a mass exodus.  Then after 10-12 years the Walmart closes,
abandoning the few that remain in a now relative ghost town.  In the process
they've made a ton of money.  So in the case of sub 5k towns it IS in
Walmart's interest to destroy the town, because they can make more money
faster this way.  (Nowata, OK)

As for the town giving subsidies.  It becomes a choice of being destroyed in
10-12 years when the Walmart has sucked the town dry, or of being destroyed
in 1-2 years by Walmart opening a store in the next town over.  Kenneth
Stone (econ professor IAState) has several papers on the sort term vs long
term economic effects of Walmart on sub 5k towns.  (no I didn't go to
IAState, nor have I ever personally met Kenneth Stone - in case anyone
thinks it matters).

For larger towns/cities Walmart doesn't have this kind of negative affect
nearly as often, though it does happen even in moderately populated cities.
(Toledo, OH)

BTW, on a personal note/response: I don't "push my cart" through Walmart.
The last time I even accepted something purchased from Walmart was back in
1998.  But I've been lucky enough to usually live in slightly larger
towns/cities and have a choice in the matter financially.

-Brandon

On 7/29/07, Dave Weis <djweis at internetsolver.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jeff Davis wrote:
> > Brandon Griffis wrote:
> >> Your statement, though obviously sarcastic, is more true than you seem
> >> to know.  Walmart is a great example of this.  Kmart went bankrupt and
> >> there are few of them left.  Target is usually only in the slightly
> more
> >> populated towns.  But where Walmart is the most vicious is when the
> town
> >> has local/smaller stores.  Walmart comes in, undercuts everyone and
> >> takes a loss at that store for 5-8 years.  Then when all the other
> >> businesses go backrupt they jack up their prices and in many cases
> >> destroy the town.  Not to mention the job loss and lack of full time
> >> insured positions.
> >
> > Walmart is a corporation with share holders and the goal is to earn
> money.
> > Walmart isn't in the business of destroying towns, in fact it would not
> > be in walmart's interest NOT to destroy a town.  Apparently everyone in
> those
> > towns you cite is fickle enough that they only look to the lowest price.
> > (I've noticed that often times the lowest price isn't a brand you
> recognize.)
> > So if the towns people don't shop at the other smaller businesses, I'd
> > suggest that perhaps it is the fault of those towns people that they
> > no longer have any choice but Walmart.  As opposed to your theory that
> > Walmart destroyed the town.
>
> Yes, you can't be pushing your cart through walmart and comment on how
> there seems to be fewer other stores around. The reason there are fewer
> is that people stopped going to them. Kmart is probably not a good
> illustration -- they were doing a pretty good job imploding all by
> themselves. They were about like Netscape in the browser wars shipping a
> crap browser for years and spending more time complaining about MS who
> was actually trying to improve their browser. I had more X lockups
> running Netscape 4.x than any other application I can remember.
>
> > This reminds me of some conversations I've had with people who
> > complain about U.S. manufacturing being moved overseas, while
> > those same people think nothing about shopping at all the $1
> > stores whose inventory very rarely states "Made in the USA."
>
> I hadn't realized it before but some of the anti-walmart and walmart
> reform groups are actually funded and operated by the unions, including
> UFCW. I would be curious how many of their members shop at walmart.
>
>
> dave
>
>
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