[Cialug]voip

Thu Dec 6 13:36:27 CST 2007

For a typical home / acreage owner the best deal is "net metering".
("Small" user with "small" generator)  Excess electricity generated
while use is low (say on a windy night while all the lights are turned
off) goes back out on the grid as a credit.  Then when you need more
electricity that you're generating you use those credits to buy
electricity, rather than having to pay for it with money.  

This works especially well with a wind system.  June, July, & August are
typically less windy months and the load is relatively high due to A/C.
So 'cheap' KWH (say $.10) generated during the winter and pushed onto
the grid are returned with expensive (say $.14) KWH during the summer.
(Of course, if you had a solar system you'd get more KWH in the summer
than winter, so in a combination system they compliment each other well.

Of course, if you're trying to live clear off the grid, even with both
solar and wind, you're going to need batteries and / or a generator for
some periods of time.  (Aside, both diesel and gas 'go stale' in long
term storage, unless kept at just above freezing temperatures, gas
evaporates leaving the 'varnish' behind and diesel jells up, so LP is
best for an infrequently used fuel that is stored for an indeterminate
amount of time.)

If you just sell excess electricity to the grid they buy it not at the
price you pay (wouldn't that be nice) but at the avoided cost or
generation, or their lowest cost source of electricity, or about $.03
per KWH.

Murray McKee 
Data Analyst
LI Data Modeling, Mapping, and Analysis
Wells Fargo Lending Information Systems - TIG (Technology Information
Group)
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-----Original Message-----
From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On
Behalf Of Daniel A. Ramaley
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:36 AM
To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
Subject: Re: [Cialug]voip

Hmm. I thought the 1.8 MW looked a bit off... if windmills were that 
cheap, they'd be going up a lot faster than they are already. If i 
could buy 1.8 MW of electrical generation capacity for only $15 000, i 
think that would be worth taking out a loan for and selling the excess 
to the power company.

How many kW hours does a "typical" residence use in a month, anyway?

On Thursday 06 December 2007 09:11, murraymckee at wellsfargo.com wrote:
>I believe your calculations are off a bit.  I think you meant a 1.8
>KILOwatt turban would be $15,000.  If you want to generate 1.8
> MEGOwatts you're going to have to put in well over $1,000,000 and
> since the blades on will be longer than 50' you're going to need a
> tower in the 150' - 200' range.  The down side is that if you want a
> 1.8 MW generator you're going to have to put your order in soon as
> the lead time for getting a construction crew and generator delivery
> are both 24 - 36 months.
>
>Murray McKee
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On
>Behalf
>Of Dave J. Hala Jr.
>Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:12 AM
>To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
>Subject: Re: [Cialug]voip
>
>Ditch the diesel generator. Switch an lp/hydrogen generator.
>
>Don't laugh, I have 10,000w diesel generator. It won't run the ac but
> it will run the furnace and a computer or two.
>
>LP is easier to deal with. Nissan was experimenting(when I left)with
>hydrogen fired forklifts, the fuel tank was made like a large thermos
>Bottle in order to keep it cold enough(and high pressure) to keep it
> in a
>liquid state. Lp is only ~200psi in order to keep it as a liquid.
>
>For $15,000 you can have a 1.8 megawatt wind generator with the
>inverter, 50ft tower and the electronics to tie it the grid at 240vac.
>Compliment that with a $26,000 solar array and a $15,000 hydrogen
>generator. Get $5,000 worth the marine batteries.
>
>Instead of hooking it to the grid and thereby subsidizing your local
>coal burning power plant, build your own little power grid to power
> your stuff. Use the excess electricity to charge the batteries and to
> produce hydrogen.  Store  the hydrogen in an lp tank. When there's no
> sun, use the hydrogen to run the generator. You can also use the
> hydrogen to heat your house.
>
>This way the only thing you have to worry about is a lawn mower
> running over the coax cable that mediacom laid on the ground from the
> pole to the house.
>
>:) Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
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