[Cialug] Laughable

Korver, Aaron cialug@cialug.org
Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:21:13 -0600


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Another large cost factor is legacy systems.  Look at the programs that you
use on a daily basis.  Then think about the infrastructure programs such as
Active Directory and Exchange.  I think we all would like to see Linux plus
OSS being used more and more, but migration and training are still the two
biggest hurdles to overcome.  Not just the training of engineers and techs,
but of your employees as well.  For example, switching from Microsoft Office
to Open Office.  This may not be a large impact, but it will still be an
impact to some companies.  Impacts = money, either through spending for
training or a loss of productivity.
 
So a summary (perhaps incomplete) of costs to use Linux
Training (of techs and engineers)
Training (of users)
Support (help desk and tech support issues)
Migration (data migration and switching to different software applications)
 
If the Linux/OSS community can lower these costs, then the Return on
Investment will go way up for a company.  When (note not if, as I believe it
will happen) this happens is when Linux is ready for the enterprise.
 
 
 
On a happy note, the ROI for a starting company make Linux + OSS the most
obvious choice.  So at least the Microsofts of the world have a difficult
time with new companies.
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee [mailto:leeh@csi-rics.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 3:12 PM
To: cialug@cialug.org
Subject: RE: [Cialug] Laughable


I realize this is a little off the topic. But I need to say it.
 
One amazing thing about the whole cost of training and support argument.
I've seen first hand what going to a new version of Windows for instance can
cost in training and support. If you follow many vendors prefered upgrade
path. You send your techs and engineers to classes and get the certs for
every major upgrade. Yes it may involve a far lesser learning curve
migrating from one version to another of the same platform. But to say that
there is such a difference becuase of those costs, isn't fairly comparing
the true (overall) price tag. Yes it may be true that training could
actually cost more than getting this OS on x number of seats. But what
happens when you need to add training or additional support to the other
guys product as well?

-----Original Message-----
From: cialug-admin@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-admin@cialug.org]On Behalf Of
Korver, Aaron
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 2:42 PM
To: 'cialug@cialug.org'
Subject: RE: [Cialug] Laughable



I don't think he is talking about the software, but the price of a knowledge
base to run and administrate the system. 

> -----Original Message----- 
> From: admin [ mailto:admin@c0wzftp.com <mailto:admin@c0wzftp.com> ] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 2:53 PM 
> To: cialug@cialug.org 
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Laughable 
> 
> 
> oh my. my favorite line from that article: 
> 
> Additionally, he said that Linux is not significantly cheaper than 
> alternative operating systems. 
> 
> anyone else smell the smoke? i think a fire's on its way. 
> this article is 
> just too hot to let go. 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: "Lee" <leeh@csi-rics.com> 
> To: "Cialug@Cialug.Org" <cialug@cialug.org> 
> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:31:35 -0600 
> Subject: [Cialug] Laughable 
> 
> > Ok, lets all give up and go home. A group of Industry heavyweights 
> > declares 
> > Linux isn't ready for the enterprise! 
> > 
> > 
> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39191533,00.htm
<http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39191533,00.htm>  
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Cialug mailing list 
> > Cialug@cialug.org 
> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
<http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug>  
> 
> 
> ------------------------- 
> want an email address ending in @c0wzftp.com? 
> send an email on over to admin@c0wzftp.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Cialug mailing list 
> Cialug@cialug.org 
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
<http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug>  
> 


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<TITLE>RE: [Cialug] Laughable</TITLE>

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<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Another large cost factor is legacy systems.&nbsp; Look at the programs 
that you use on a daily basis.&nbsp; Then think about the infrastructure 
programs such as Active Directory and Exchange.&nbsp; I think we all would like 
to see Linux plus OSS being used more and more, but migration and training are 
still the two biggest hurdles to overcome.&nbsp; Not just the training of 
engineers and techs, but of your employees as well.&nbsp; For example, switching 
from Microsoft Office to Open Office.&nbsp; This may not be a large impact, but 
it will still be an impact to some companies.&nbsp; Impacts = money, either 
through spending for training or a loss of productivity.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So a 
summary (perhaps incomplete) of costs to use Linux</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Training (of techs and engineers)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Training (of users)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Support (help desk and tech support issues)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Migration (data migration and switching to different software 
applications)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If the 
Linux/OSS community can lower these costs, then the Return on Investment will go 
way up for a company.&nbsp; When (note not if, as I believe it will happen) this 
happens is when Linux is ready for the enterprise.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>On a 
happy note, the ROI for a starting company make Linux + OSS the most obvious 
choice.&nbsp; So at least the Microsofts of the world have a difficult time with 
new companies.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=775141321-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Lee 
  [mailto:leeh@csi-rics.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 17, 2005 3:12 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> cialug@cialug.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Cialug] 
  Laughable<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=364074920-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I 
  realize this is a little off the topic. But I need to say 
  it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=364074920-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=364074920-17032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>One 
  amazing thing about the whole cost of training and support argument. I've seen 
  first hand what going to a new version of Windows for instance can cost in 
  training and support. If you follow&nbsp;many vendors&nbsp;prefered upgrade 
  path. You send your techs and engineers to classes and get the certs for every 
  major upgrade. Yes it may&nbsp;involve a far lesser learning 
  curve&nbsp;migrating&nbsp;from&nbsp;one version to another of the same 
  platform. But to&nbsp;say that there is such a&nbsp;difference becuase of 
  those costs, isn't fairly comparing the true (overall) price tag. Yes it may 
  be true that training could actually cost more than getting this OS on&nbsp;x 
  number of seats. But what happens when you need to add training or additional 
  support to the other guys product as well?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> cialug-admin@cialug.org 
    [mailto:cialug-admin@cialug.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Korver, 
    Aaron<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 17, 2005 2:42 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 
    'cialug@cialug.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Cialug] 
    Laughable<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <P><FONT size=2>I don't think he is talking about the software, but the 
    price of a knowledge base to run and administrate the system.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    From: admin [<A 
    href="mailto:admin@c0wzftp.com">mailto:admin@c0wzftp.com</A>]</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 2:53 PM</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; To: cialug@cialug.org</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    Subject: Re: [Cialug] Laughable</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; oh my. my favorite 
    line from that article:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; Additionally, he said that Linux is not significantly cheaper 
    than</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; alternative operating systems.</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; anyone else smell the 
    smoke? i think a fire's on its way. </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; this 
    article is</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; just too hot to let go.</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; From: 
    "Lee" &lt;leeh@csi-rics.com&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; To: 
    "Cialug@Cialug.Org" &lt;cialug@cialug.org&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:31:35 -0600</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Subject: 
    [Cialug] Laughable</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    &gt; Ok, lets all give up and go home. A group of Industry 
    heavyweights</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; declares</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; &gt; Linux isn't ready for the enterprise!</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; &gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; </FONT><BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; <A 
    href="http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39191533,00.htm" 
    target=_blank>http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39191533,00.htm</A></FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
    _______________________________________________</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    &gt; Cialug mailing list</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
    Cialug@cialug.org</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; <A 
    href="http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug" 
    target=_blank>http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug</A></FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    -------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; want an email address 
    ending in @c0wzftp.com?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; send an email on over 
    to admin@c0wzftp.com</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    _______________________________________________</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    Cialug mailing list</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Cialug@cialug.org</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; <A href="http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug" 
    target=_blank>http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug</A></FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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