[Cialug] Iowa Public Schools - Linux Terminal Server

[n00b]

i can verify that this is how the typical high school library is used. i
never used books in there (unless the schools t1 went down). every class
that could use the internet for a project would. some classes used online
article-database thingies to get information. i never figured that crap
out. too much reading. but from what i heard if you know how to use it,
its a very good way to get information. but all in all, chris is right.
schools need to stop using the internet as a primary source and start
forcign students to use books. i'll admit i was a victim of that
philosophy and I have a hell of a time using books now for academia stuff.

I don't see why schools couldn't do a 5 to 1 computer to student ratio.
heck even a 10:1 student:computer ratio wouldn't be too bad. could get
better machines that way too.

they could get even better computers if they'd go w/o an OS when they
purchase them. saveem lots & lots & lots o money

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hilton <chris129@cs.iastate.edu>
To: cialug@cialug.org
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:10:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [Cialug] Iowa Public Schools - Linux Terminal Server

> If you think about it, back when schools were first getting computers; 
> granted it was only larger schools usually.  They would be spending
> what 
> they now spend on a G5 to get a cheap computer.
> 
> I think this whole "computer in every students lap in every classroom" 
> ideology is pushing schools to put the cheapest computers in.  I 
> remember at Valley there were a lot of computers....way too many 
> actually.  There were labs that weren't used all the time, and most the
> use was well...not real use IMO.  I don't consider "Internet research" 
> consisting of some mediocre geocities sites to be a valid use of 
> "costly" computer time.  And the one spot where research really should 
> be happening (the library) was where students went to goof off on the 
> computers (not classes to do research, I still wonder what all those 
> books were for, no one read them).
> 
> Classes like keyboarding need computers.  Classes about *sigh* computer
> applications *groan* need computers.  Programming classes, sometimes, 
> need computers.  But Ms. Joybergh's (obviously a fake name, I hope) 
> American History class does not need to indulge the kids in some 
> half-baked site about American Indians.  Not that this isn't a valid 
> subject, the key part is the half-baked part....  You don't need the 
> internet to guide everyone through the same information, that's what 
> projectors were invented for.....
> 
> Totally unhelpful to the original guy, but I had to put in my $.02!
> 
> Major Stubble wrote:
> 
> >These are just my two cents.  It's not meant as a criticism to the
> >ideas offered - more as a op ed on the terrible situation of our
> >schools.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>In larger schools...they typically have all the in-house tech support
> they
> >>need between the dedicated IT team, and the high school kids, (some
> of which
> >>are involved in Cisco, RedHat, and/or Microsoft certification
> programs) 
> >>About the only time they call in a consultant, is when they're doing
> major
> >>changes of infrastructure. 
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I came from a larger school (Davenport West High School).  I grant you
> >that I have been long removed from the day to day activities there. 
> >However, I remember that even as large as Dav West was, almost all the
> >technological needs of the students and the teachers were taken care
> >of by the teachers.  That's why when Ms. Smiley (real teacher) wants
> >to move most of the school's yearbook layouts to the Mac, she will
> >either listen to publisher or a talented student from her class.
> >
> >This was the way things went in the keyboarding class down at
> >Davenport Smart Junior High School.  Hardware, software,
> >authentication.  All of this was decided and implemented  by the
> >supervising teacher.  Most have little experience.  Almost all will
> >stick with what was there previously.  That's why the office
> >proficiency classes in Davenport are inconsistent from classroom to
> >classroom.  I pray the situation has change.  I doubt it has.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>For a full time staff member: new tech: $24K, experienced tech: $35K
> and up 
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I fear that this is both accurate and abysmal.  Even if it is for a
> >single school, such a meager budget is woefully shortsighted.  This is
> >just my opinion, but I have seen the load that a good school can put
> >on a full-time, non-administration (ie not the associate principles)
> >hire.  [EDITORIAL: From top to bottom, it would seem that the work
> >load is in reverse to the pay structure.]
> >
> >A good system administrator (alone) would end up working 50-60 hours a
> >week.  This means that the said administrator would earn on average
> >$11.50 to $13.50 an hour (assuming the $35K).  I'm surprised that
> >school boards don't jump on this, as it would be like paying for a
> >single teacher [NOTE: sarcasm].
> >
> >  
> >
> >>2.  Does anyone believe it would be more cost effective to use Linux
> in
> >>place of Apple or Microsoft in the K12 environment? ...
> >>    
> >>
> >...
> >  
> >
> >>From my perspective, the absolute easiest way these days (read that
> >>as needing the least amount of specialized knowledge) is probably
> with an
> >>OSX server.  You get the Macs on a central login, as well as
> providing Samba
> >>services (and centralized login)  to the Win clients. 
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I hope this is the case now.  I know that a year ago, the Cedar Falls
> >school board denied a request for additional funds to the standard IT
> >budget so that the high school could replace both the hardware and the
> >software currently in place (a move towards this idea).  I fear that
> >this is a similar problem with most school districts.  Frankly, the
> >over-priced cost of the Apple systems prevents this dream scenario. 
> >Most school board members (unfairly) note that they could purchase
> >three Dells (or worse - Gateways) for the price of a G5 [I know that I
> >am exaggerating, only I do remember a certain board member making this
> >statement to the local rag.].  Given this mindset, how many teachers
> >and secretaries work within the system with underpowered PC's or Mac's
> >with OS 9.x?
> >
> >*sigh*
> >
> >I apologise.  I'm really just venting.  This isn't just a problem with
> >K12.  I'm sure that most of you with full-time positions in IT know
> >that this mindset exists in every realm of both education and private
> >business.  I just find it upsetting because when mediocrity is the
> >norm, all we can ask of the future is a lower standard.
> >
> >I personally feel that many of these issues arise from higher ups who
> >have a mindset that their pay check is more important than anyone
> >else's.  In the end, it is those who are serviced (in this case K12
> >students) who suffer.
> >
> >Good IT can be affordable.  The second question should not be how much
> >it could cost.  Instead it should be, where is the money we need to do
> >this right.
> >
> >In the end, this will only get worse.  So long as teachers and staff
> >are treated as an irritating burden on the school board's pristine
> >budget, we will never see the infrastructure that will best (or even
> >adequately) serve the students of Iowa.
> >
> >-MS
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> >
> >  
> >
> 
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