[DM-MUG] Compiled [long] discussion of Pro and Con of Dues - Important!

[Victoria L. Herring]

I posted the Q of budgeting for MUG to the user 
group listserve for Ambassadors etc. and started 
quite a discussion, here's the give and take so 
far:

I've been in all 3 situations (no dues); minimal 
dues (per year) and Money per meeting.

In the cases involving money, you'll need to 
incorporate as a not-for-profit, bookkeeper other 
necessaries before getting too far.

The MUG I belong to that takes $30/yr recently 
agreed to "swallow" and merge assets with a more 
specialized group that charged per meeting 
[overhead, food, cover partial expense of the 
speaker].

the one that charges zero money is moving along, 
and does have presentations - they'd have more if 
better organized.

Ah dues and the need for them. A universal discussion point among MUGs.

you ask why MUGs might have dues. right off hand:

1. Rental of meeting space
2. Buying raffle items
3. Paying for a web presence
4. An annual gift or party for volunteers
5. A holiday party for the MUG
6. Purchase of a Mac for presentation purposes
7. Mail and other office expenses
8. There is a perception that something free isn't worth much.

Of course each of those reasons is determined by 
the needs and resources available to your MUG.

On Feb 11, 2008 9:22 PM, Alex <alex at amug.org> wrote:
Victoria,

Ah dues and the need for them. A universal discussion point among MUGs.

you ask why MUGs might have dues. right off hand:

1. Rental of meeting space

Cross-promote.  Meet at a place that gets a benefit by your meetings:
bookstores, restaurants, partnered business associates (graphic design
firms)

2. Buying raffle items

Why sell raffle tickets?  Simply give them away.

3. Paying for a web presence

Free with .Mac and/or sell sponsorship.  Domain names are $5.00 a year

4. An annual gift or party for volunteers

If you have to bribe volunteers, then are they really volunteers?
Thank them in other ways such as recognition or something inexpensive
with lots of value.

5. A holiday party for the MUG

Potluck is not only fun, but is a way of bringing a diverse group of
people together.  Instead of going from A-Z, we have things like
people running any app in classic bring dessert, Tiger and Panther
brings main dish, and Jaguar, Cheetah, or OS 9 bring side dish.  You
get the idea.

6. Purchase of a Mac for presentation purposes

I'm sure you can borrow one from a member.  If all you are doing is
presenting, you don't need a super powerful Mac

7. Mail and other office expenses

Email is free and sustainable!


8. There is a perception that something free isn't worth much.

You need to create value, and value doesn't cost, it pays.  if you
offer something someone wants...and free, all the better.  People
realize that User Groups aren't about making money, but having fun and
learning.  If your members aren't getting value for something free,
charging dues simply makes it less valuable.

I have yet to hear a good, rational reason for dues expect "We've
always had them."  This is 2008, not 1984...and it ties into the
discussion earlier about why Mugs are on the decline.  The generation
of the iPod expects free music, free email, free software, unlimited
phone calls and text/SMS, and unlimited Internet.  They never knew a
time where cell phone minutes were measured in dollars and not
pennies.  A time when you "dialed" into the Internet and had constant
busy signals.

In 1984 we needed dues to supply Disks of the Month (then CD of the
month) and printed newsletters.  We offered exclusive content
inaccessible to others.  Then we had to pay for our AppleLink and then
AOL accounts, expensive webshosting and domain names.  Oh, and
probably a BBS so members to chat.

Today, we simply won't attract new members by presenting them a model
that has no relevance to them.  Information, as we know, seeks the
most open path.  The model of computing is movings towards openness
and universality, not a "haves" and "have nots" club.  When they hear
"Members Only", they think of those cheesey jackets they see on VH-1
Totally 80s.  The concept of some "private" area on a website violates
their world view.  Today, it's about open source and Wikipedia.
Ironic, that Apple constantly breaks the model in design, yet the
basic model of the MUG hasn't changing since the Lisa.  Do you realize
today's college students never lived in a world without a Mac?

When Steve buried the classic OS in a coffin at WWDC, he did that to
show people that old habits die hard.  Mugs need to adapt to change
and not force new groups into an outdated and restrictive model.
Break the mold and break free of your plateau.

You say you need dues, I say Mugs can't afford to 
charge dues!  There I said it!


Dave, all valid points but as they say in the car 
world, Your Mileage May Vary, and each MUG's 
circumstance may be different.

I'm not going to go down the list but here is an 
example:  we have not for many years been able to 
find any place for free that has seating for 50 
to 75, provides internet access with a projector, 
let's us schedule it every month a year in 
advance, and is open in the evenings (for our 
members who work) and days *for our older members 
who don't drive at night). If your group has 
found such a place, then I envy you; we have to 
pay over $200 a month for the facilities.

I can't imagine why anyone would sanction you or 
your group. As I said in the response to 
Victoria, this has been a debate for many years. 
I think that each group should do what is right 
for them and their circumstances.

Best,


The PBMUG does charge an annual membership fee 
(dues) of $40. When the club started a long time 
ago we charged $10 a year. We raised it as the 
members approved doing more with our money.

We charge this to defray costs of the club. We 
serve coffee and a snack at meetings, mail 
notices of meetings, buy "door prizes" for 
meetings, provide a monthly CD, pay for a 'thank 
you' dinner to presenters after the meeting, pay 
for dues to national & regional computer user 
associations, etc. Its not a lot, but it adds up.

Before we found a place to meet for free, the 
place we were meeting charged $20 and hour for 
the room and $600 a year for a special 'slip and 
fall' liability insurance for "outside groups." 
The savings allowed us to use our treasury to 
purchase a new projector to connect to the club's 
Mac-mini computer. Now we can meet anywhere.

Any sales training program recommends that its 
not just the features of what you offer, but the 
benefits to these features that motivates people 
to pay for them. Check out Apple's "Switcher" 
page for a great example of this. And see 10 
Reasons To Join, too.

Features answer the "what it is," but Benefits 
answer the "what's in it for you."
For example, features of your club could be:
- regular meetings, or
- a monthly newsletter, or
- member only Hardware and Software Discounts.

And the Benefit is:
- save money,
- usefulness,
- keeping up with the latest.

The promotion could look like, "As a dues paying 
member of the XXMUG there are serious cash 
consequences. All paid up members get special 
offers and exclusive discounts so you could save 
money on what you want."

We have found that the value added of paid 
membership more than exceeds the nominal amount 
of the membership fee.

Gary Kampel
Apple Ambassador
PBMUG.org

I'd like to add a bit about budgeting, if I may.

First of all, I'd strongly recommend listening to 
the audio of the Second User Groups 2.0 Virtual 
Conference, which can be found here:

http://www.mugcenter.com/category/user-groups-20/

I can guarantee it will open your mind to many 
new ideas about how one group handles money.

To begin in terms of a budget, my suggestion is 
to run a MUG like a business. Any business, 
whether it's a doctor's office, a restaurant, a 
thrift store, a private music teacher, or Apple, 
Inc., will have a reason for being. What is the 
reason your MUG exists? To get you started along 
the path to an answer, you might want to ask 
yourself why you belong to your MUG. The answer 
to that most fundamental question, why does your 
MUG exist, will almost certainly make almost all 
the other business and budget decisions fall into 
place. For example...

If your MUG exists to create a warm sense of 
community (similar to a book club), then you may 
not need any dues at all. You can meet at 
someone's home, and have virtually the same 
people each meeting, and have a great time at no 
expense. There's nothing wrong with that.

Another option is to treat your MUG as an 
educational organization. This will almost 
certainly require getting speakers, advertising, 
getting space, and more. People will almost 
certainly want to leave with something in their 
hand, and/or new ideas or ways to do things in 
their mind. There may also be a sense of 
community, but there is a very real sense of 
going beyond just the community aspect to 
outreach and education. So your real bills will 
determine your real budget. One huge difference 
between a community MUG and this type will be 
advertising. Word of mouth is great, but it will 
only get you so far. The whole question of 
whether you want to charge dues or an admission 
price at each meeting or sell products or sell 
advertising or some other system to get your 
money is up to you, but that's the other half of 
the budget question. Once you know your expenses, 
then you can figure out how much you need per 
month (or week, or year, etc) and figure the best 
way to meet the expenses. But the bottom line 
really IS the bottom line in a business, and so 
your customers/members had better leave with 
something of value to them or they won't come 
back, no matter how slick and cool your web site 
and newsletter and flyers and advertising are.

The third option is what is described in the 
Second User Groups 2.0 Virtual Conference, so 
I'll just leave that as a teaser :)

So, in a nutshell, figure out why your MUG 
exists, (there are more choices than just the 
ones I've listed, you'll have to open your mind 
to what is really happening in your MUG) see if 
you even have any expenses at all, and then do 
the math. Once you know the amounts, then the big 
question is determining how to charge for those 
amounts. I'll simply say that in Chicago, we have 
a membership of $40.00 per year, and in my mind 
it's a fantastic deal. It beats the communities I 
can find online, the info at the meetings is a 
lot more in depth than a web page or any product 
review, I can know the people as real people and 
not just as "MacUser5534" or some such anonymous 
username, I can actually influence the 
development of products for the Mac (and I really 
have from my MUG!), I have access to many of the 
movers and shakers in the Mac world and I've 
actually met them myself at our MUG, and I walk 
away having saved many times the $40.00 each year 
on products I would have purchased anyway. I 
can't get any of that anywhere else in Chicago, 
that's why I'm a member :)

Sincerely,

Russ Conte

As it has been said before... it depends upon 
your group. But I am writing to tell you that I 
have been a UG member for decades. Our group has 
had high membership with no money and now lower 
membership with higher dues. We are a much 
happier group WITH money. I think that is true 
for everyone in life. It is not fun to try to 
develop a program and always struggle with money.

We use our money to keep up on technology. We 
have, in the last six years, begun to keep up 
with the technology changes in the hardware. We 
just purchased a nice powerbook with Jaguar for 
our group. We have a nice projector. We sell at 
auction to our members the older equipment. We 
set minimum bids and take sealed bids. High bid 
gets it. We review books and software, and 
members who do so present at meetings and then 
can keep the reviewed item.

We have two socials a year. Our picnic in the 
summer has been out-of-doors and combines a 
digital photo contest with small prizes in about 
four or five catagories: best close up; best 
animal; best person; best action; etc. The food 
is wonderful and is pot luck with drinks, plates, 
plasticware, cups, and paper products supplied by 
the club.

The second social is our holiday party. We 
usually allocate $200 for "gifts". We have canned 
air, jewel cases, DVD's and CD's, thumb drives, 
printing speciality papers, etc. That everyone 
gets to choose one. We usually add a bit of 
"spice" to it by allowing items to be "taken" and 
it becomes very lively. Again the food is pot 
luck, all the accessories are provided by the 
club, and we generally share our systems and have 
an open show and tell. Fun for all while holiday 
music is supplied via iTunes.

Now we don't get our treasury up and hopping with 
just dues. We have a raffle. The idea came to us 
through a member of a fraternal organization that 
used it for years. We have also been using it for 
years and it really helps the coffers. Here's how 
it works. You need a roll of double tickets. When 
members arrive they may purchase a ticket for a 
dollar or 6/$5. At the break we draw. The winner 
is then given the opportunity to reach inside a 
heavy money sack that has 12 white poker chips 
and one red one. If they draw the white one they 
win $3. If they draw the red chip they win the 
potý. The pot accumulates. We have had it go 
twice all the way to the red chip being the only 
one left. As each week passes the odds get 
better, the money gets higher and the 
participation gets higher.
ý The pot is half of all the money taken in, less 
the $3 paid out to folks who don't get the red 
chip. So if it goes all the way, you'd pay out 12 
x $3 = $36. But the money that comes in more than 
pays for that. The half that the UG keeps adds to 
our bank account each month. It is fun and it 
helps us.

We have a very active group of volunteers who 
help folks with their systems and software. There 
is no charge, but donations for our group are 
always welcomed. Often the recipient of our 
goodwill joins... at least for the year. Then 
they feel good about the "free" help and at least 
half stay longer than one year, which helps our 
treasury, too.

We take donations of older software and we sell 
it for low sums of money, which also helps our 
group. So if you have older software, books, etc. 
you may donate them; we sell them for $1-$20 
depending on what it is. That sits on a table and 
is available at break time for a look.

We also burn a "disk of the month". It has 
software on it that is reviewed and saves the 
member the hassle of downloading. This cd is $5. 
We haven't done any recently, as most of our 
members are now using cable or high speed 
connections, but if your members still use dial 
up it can be most helpful to them. We will 
actually take orders and then burn that many.

This is what our group is doing now. I have not 
been the best Ambassador. I've had a difficult 
time logging in; finding out info, etc. So I am 
moving on and our soon-to-be- ex president will 
return to this job. I know I'd really enjoy it, 
but I am challenged to find the info I need when 
I am looking. So now I am no longer looking and 
Peter can take it over and figure out the classes 
and tests. I would have liked that, but perhaps 
this is for the best for now.

Ambassador Kathryn Whitacre for NW Apple Pickers in Tacoma, WA



I thought this might be a good place to guide your consideration...
Starting a user group requires time, effort, 
leadership, dedication, and vision. However, ask 
almost any user group leader, and they'll tell 
you it's all worth it. Consider some of these 
reasons to start a user group...
From "Why Start A Group"
http://www.apple.com/usergroups/leaders/whystart/

Gary Kampel

-- 
Victoria L. Herring, Attorney in Des Moines, Iowa 
-  Civil rights,  Discrimination & Employment 
Law, http://www.herringlaw.com.  Ph. 
515/255-4475;  iChat AV: 
victoriaherring at mac.com;  Skype:  vlherring.
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