<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Learning C is good for you. If you love C, you can be happy as a C programmer or if you need to learn to work with objects C++. If you hate memory management, C# and Java will great you with open arms. Either way, when it comes to languages just know what ever language you learn will most likely become obsolete. Most programmers will learn several languages and thankfully the concepts transfer nicely. If you ask anyone what language should you learn in first, unless it's a biased group (lets say, asking a Python group what language they recommend) a flame war will break out and then never get a straight answer. However the general consensus is stay away from languages like Visual Basic. </div><div><br></div><div>Maybe we should just mention what NOT to suggest for a for a first language. </div><div><br></div><div>-Will </div><br><div><div>On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:47 PM, John Lengeling wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">C is extensively used in Telecommunications/Networking industry, followed by C++.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Also all that you learn in C or C++ helps you when you start learning any C influenced languages like:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Java, Perl, Python, PHP, JavaScript, Go etc.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org">cialug-bounces@cialug.org</a> [<a href="mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Josh More<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, July 20, 2011 1:54 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Central Iowa Linux Users Group<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Cialug] Cialug Beginnings<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">I disagree! Flame flame flame! ;)<br><br><br>More seriously, if you are interested in kernel or embedded development, C is fine. There are other languages you'll want to pick up later, but it's not a bad starting point. Just understand that it's very niche and you will experience career flexibility limitation if you choose to focus there.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">Josh More</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| Senior Security Consultant - CISSP, GIAC-GSLC Gold, GIAC-GCIH<br><b>Alliance Technologies</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.AllianceTechnologies.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: red; ">www.AllianceTechnologies.net</span></a><br>400 Locust St., Suite 840 | Des Moines, IA 50309<br>515.245.7701 | 888.387.5670 x7701<br><br>Blog: Public attacks are on the rise. Are you protecting yourself?<br><a href="http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/blogs/morej" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: red; ">http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/blogs/morej</span></a><br><br>How are we doing? Let us know here:<br><a href="http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/forms/alliance-technologies-feedback-survey" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.alliancetechnologies.net/forms/alliance-technologies-feedback-survey</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center; "><span style="color: black; "><hr size="3" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><div id="divRpF974481"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">cialug-bounces@cialug.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">cialug-bounces@cialug.org</a>] on behalf of Matthew Nuzum [<a href="mailto:newz@bearfruit.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">newz@bearfruit.org</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, July 20, 2011 13:37<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Central Iowa Linux Users Group<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Cialug] Cialug Beginnings</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">C is becoming a niche skill these days. It implies only three industries I know of: driver/kernel development, embedded development (we're arguably in the post C world here too) and algorithm/library/high performance computing world. At the least, many have moved on to c++.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">I'm getting back to opinionated ground, but I don't usually encourage people to start out with old technology. The stuff that's bleeding edge today will be entering mainstream in 3-4 years and be in demand.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">C as a language represents all that is archaic and old. At least use something object oriented. C++, Java, C# and Go are examples.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">On Jul 20, 2011 11:38 AM, "Pawel" <<a href="mailto:pdarowski@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">pdarowski@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> So a hiring manager would like to hear about some personal projects? Perhaps<br>> one good example of an overcome challenge? I guess it would paint a decent<br>> picture of the applicant's self-motivation and ability to seek answers.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Thanks for all your input. I'm beginning to see that the biggest challenge<br>> of development [in my eyes] is having a vision or finding that interesting<br>> problem that needs solving. Once it's found, the rest is research and<br>> determination.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Two more quick question while I still have the floor! :) How important are<br>> certifications in the real world? And please, what is the "industry<br>> standard" for C certificates? I'm having an impossible time finding a C<br>> cert... And my instructors don't really know of any.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> See you around,<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Pawel Darowski<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:PDarowski@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">PDarowski@gmail.com</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Matthew Nuzum <<a href="mailto:newz@bearfruit.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">newz@bearfruit.org</a>> wrote:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Pawel <<a href="mailto:pdarowski@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">pdarowski@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>>><br>>>> Since I cannot attend meetings for quite some time, perhaps the IRC<br>>>> channel would be a good place to start taking advantage of the knowledge<br>>>> that already exists in this group. My question is: how did some of you start<br>>>> your careers as Linux professionals? My goal is to use Linux in my<br>>>> professional life from Day 1.<br>>>><br>>><br>>> I too am usually unable to make it to the meetings. I do about one per<br>>> year. However I still feel reasonably involved with the group by<br>>> participating on the list.<br>>><br>>><br>>>><br>>>> Any tips, stories, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.<br>>>> Thank you,<br>>>><br>>><br>>> The common thread among the people I've met through this group is that<br>>> we're tinkerers. Find some fascinating problem or challenge and dig into it.<br>>> Back in "the day" the most interesting linux problem was figuring out how to<br>>> get it to actually install. This one has been pretty soundly dealt with now<br>>> though. :-)<br>>><br>>> (in my case I owned only about 5 working floppies and lived off campus at<br>>> ISU (near towers) and had to ride my bike to Durham to download 5 slackware<br>>> disks, then ride back home to complete the next phase of the install -<br>>> which, btw, is slower than a 14.4k modem)<br>>><br>>> Some people are financially motivated - they want to run PHP or Ruby or a<br>>> server and make websites for money. A huge number of people I've dealt with<br>>> are into Games and want to make their own. You'll not find a more diverse<br>>> set of development tools than is available in Linux (check out PyGame). Yet<br>>> others are into robotics or hardware hacking which is yet again very well<br>>> suited for Linux. A few people use Linux to hook up to their TV to record<br>>> and watch TV shows.<br>>><br>>> By the way, this kind of activity looks great to potential employers. They<br>>> really like to see people who are problem solves and are self-motivated to<br>>> learn new skills and explore new ways of doing things.<br>>><br>>> I will say that there are three trends to keep in mind as you're looking<br>>> for interesting challenges:<br>>><br>>> 1. We're in an increasingly heterogeneous environment - windows, mac os,<br>>> linux, ipads and more all need to talk to each other<br>>> 2. The web is either the most important application deployment platform<br>>> now, or is right up there (this ties into the prev point)<br>>> 3. Mobile is huge (and the number one mobile platform in the world runs<br>>> Linux)<br>>><br>>> (You asked for opinions...)<br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Matthew Nuzum<br>>> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin and twitter<br>>><br>>> ♫ You're never fully dressed without a smile! ♫<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Cialug mailing list<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Cialug@cialug.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Cialug@cialug.org</a><br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug</a><br>>><br>>><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Cialug mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Cialug@cialug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Cialug@cialug.org</a><br><a href="http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>