<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Jason - </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I'm not trying to start a flamewar either, but if you're used to Macs (or better, if you have a recent Intel based model already), but need Windows and maybe Linux too, just install Windows on one of the current crop of Intel based Macs using Apple's BootCamp (free) software that has Windows drivers and will automatically partition your Mac so you can dual-boot between Mac OS X or Windows. </DIV></SPAN></SPAN><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; ">You can also use virtualization software such as Parallels Workstation or VMWare and use both OS X and Windows simultaneously. Even other OSes such as Linux etc...as many as you have RAM to support. As a programmer that has proved very handy to me already. I see a lot of Macs, especially MacBook laptops, in use among programmers these days....for this very reason. You can even copy-and-paste and drag-and-drop files between Mac OS windows and Windows OS windows....they even interleave with each other as you click on them, as if it were all one OS instead of two being run. Pretty slick.</SPAN></SPAN></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; ">Also, it's fairly trivial to boot from different internal and external hard disks on the Mac too so you could conceivably have Windows, Mac OSX and Linux all easily accessible on different drives or partitions. I believe you just hold down the "option" key at boot to get a list of logical or physical drives to boot from. Haven't done this myself except years ago to boot between different versions (languages I mean) of Mac OS on different external disk drive "cartridges" for testing translated software but I believe it's even better now. Worth investigating, anyway.</SPAN></SPAN><DIV><DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">I use Parallels Workstation on my MacBook Pro to run XP on top of OS X, and it runs quite well, and I am planning to install one or more Linux distros as soon as I have a chance. That wasn't as urgent as getting Windows running when I bought the MacBook Pro late last year, since Mac OS X is Unix based....I can still fiddle with all sorts of Unixy goodness without having to install anything else!</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">I hear VMWare is even better in most respects (but only just came out of beta so I went with Parallels since it was out last year when I bought the laptop). There's also a freeware or shareware solution instead of VMWare or Workstation but I can't recall the name at the moment. </SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">This is NOT emulation like you had to do with Virtual PC on the PowerPC chip based Macs. It runs at full chip speed (minus the virtualization overhead of course...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">You can run Linux on Macs too, of course, either directly or in Parallels or VMWare. PowerPC or Intel (I imagine you have more choices in Intel since it's got to be easier now that Macs run on Intel chips too.) There was even a Linux (MkLinux) for the old Motorol 680x0 chip based Macs I think. Got a book about it around here somewhere....)</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">I'm running a Core 2 Duo based MacBook Pro. The Mac Pro towers run 8-core or quad-core Xeons. Even the $600 Mac minis and the lower-cost MacBook (non-Pro) laptops and the iMacs all run a Core 2 Duo now. </SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">To address your numbered questions:</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">1) Macs uses SATA drives (at least my MacBook Pro does....) Since Linux runs on the Intel Macs it would pretty much have to support SATA I'd think...</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">2) Mac OS X can run 32 and 64 bit software at the command line AT THE SAME TIME already (Core 2 Duo and Xeon are 64 bit I believe) and it gets better under Mac OS X 10.5 where run 32 and 64 bit GUI apps simultaneously will be supported too. 10.5 should be out sometime this month. Dunno about 32 vs 62 bit Linuxes though. I imagine you could boot them from separate drives or partitions somehow.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">3) Dunno. As a related note, however, there are ports of many Linux/Unix apps to Mac OS X (which support X Windows) available via package management software like fink, DarwinPorts (now MacPorts I think), etc. </SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">4) The Macs use ATI, NVIDIA or Intel graphics chipsets, depends on which model. Of course, the Mac Pro towers have slots, so you can pick and choose a bit.) The current Mac Pro towers come with NVIDIA cards according to the Apple Store web site by default but you can configure it with a several other NVIDIA or ATI cards on Apple's site and I imagine there are other alternatives as well.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">This is my 2 cents. I don't claim to be a Unix or Linux expert by ANY stretch of the imagination, but I've dabbled with Unix-related stuff on and off for years...much more so now that my personal system runs Unix underneath. On a typical day (until our company was sold and we were all laid off recently) I used and/or programmed OpenVMS Alpha minicomputers, Windows XP desktops (most of my recent programming was here), and my Mac laptop on a daily basis. This is all just food for your thoughts, based on what I am aware of in the computer industry.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Lucida Sans Typewriter" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"> - Bill Davis</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>_______________________</DIV><DIV>Bill Davis</DIV><DIV>5214 Meredith Drive</DIV><DIV>Des Moines, IA </DIV><DIV>50310-2956 USA</DIV><DIV><A href="mailto:bill.davis@gmail.com">bill.davis@gmail.com</A> </DIV><DIV>+1 (515) 360-0445 cellular</DIV><DIV>+1 (515) 270-6729 home</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Sans Typewriter; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "></SPAN><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Sep 30, 2007, at 2:22 PM, Jason Warden wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hello Cialug!<BR>I have a question. I'm buying a PC for the first time in a few years after using primarily Macs. This PC will have to have Windows on it as well as Linux as my wife takes online classes at DMACC. I've just spent a few hours browsing at <A href="http://tigerdirect.com">tigerdirect.com</A> and it's quite the different world out there, isn't it?? I have a few questions (Linux and Windowz related), if anyone wants to take the time to answer:<BR>1) This new SATA transport for drives - Linux doesn't have a problem with this, does it? Anything I should know? <BR>2) One desktop I really liked on tigerdirect is actually a 64 bit. I know Linux has had 64 bit support for years, but I've heard iffy things about using XP with 64 bit systems (and I don't trust Vista yet) Would it be possible to put a 32 bit XP and a 64 bit *nix on the same computer? Are those 64 bits backwards compatible to the OS level?? I don't think this is possible because I think the RAM you buy commits you to your bitrate; is that correct? <BR>3) In the past (I was a hardcore Linux user from about '97 to '03) I've always preferred the easy-on-the-user stuff like SuSE and Mandrake/Mandriva. My biggest issues have been with the crazy package management systems (apt-get on SusE 9 worked pretty well but then 'broke'...) What is the easiest distribution in terms of package management going these days? I know this question may start a flamewar, sorry. <BR>4) Nvdia are still the Linux friendly graphics people, right?<BR><BR>Thanks <BR><BR>Jason<BR><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Cialug mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:Cialug@cialug.org">Cialug@cialug.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug">http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>