From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Sun Mar 1 13:19:03 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Sun Mar 1 13:19:28 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog Message-ID: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> My main machine at home had 2 crashes this morning. A few months ago it also had 2 crashes in one day. Normally, of course, the machine doesn't crash at all. When the crashes happen, the screen freezes, the keyboard lights start blinking, and the network dies. So the machine is totally unresponsive to anything other than the reset button. I opened it up and all fans are working properly. But i did notice /var/log/mcelog contains a bunch of stuff. The last ~100 lines are below. Any idea what these messages actually mean? Some of them mention the North Bridge, others look like a problem with one of the DIMMs. Do i have a bad DIMM or a bad North Bridge, or a bad something else? The RAM in the computer is 4 sticks of 2 GB ECC (8 GB total). The machine is running Debian Testing amd64 with kernel 2.6.26. DDR2 DIMM 333 Mhz Synchronous Width 64 Data Width 72 Size 2 GB Device Locator: DIMM3 Bank Locator: BANK3 Manufacturer: Manufacturer3 Serial Number: SerNum3 Asset Tag: AssetTagNum3 Part Number: PartNum3 MCE 0 HARDWARE ERROR. This is *NOT* a software problem! Please contact your hardware vendor CPU 0 0 data cache TSC c38ea32751 ADDR 1d7e62740 Data cache ECC error (syndrome 15) bit46 = corrected ecc error bit62 = error overflow (multiple errors) bus error 'local node origin, request didn't time out data read mem transaction memory access, level generic' STATUS d40ac00000000833 MCGSTATUS 0 WARNING: SMBIOS data is often unreliable. Take with a grain of salt! DDR2 DIMM 333 Mhz Synchronous Width 64 Data Width 72 Size 2 GB Device Locator: DIMM3 Bank Locator: BANK3 Manufacturer: Manufacturer3 Serial Number: SerNum3 Asset Tag: AssetTagNum3 Part Number: PartNum3 MCE 1 HARDWARE ERROR. This is *NOT* a software problem! Please contact your hardware vendor CPU 0 2 bus unit TSC c38ea32c2d L2 cache ECC error Bus or cache array error bit46 = corrected ecc error bit62 = error overflow (multiple errors) bus error 'local node origin, request didn't time out prefetch mem transaction memory access, level generic' STATUS d000400000000863 MCGSTATUS 0 MCE 2 HARDWARE ERROR. This is *NOT* a software problem! Please contact your hardware vendor CPU 0 4 northbridge TSC c38ea3305a MISC c008000f00000000 ADDR 1d7e63358 Northbridge RAM ECC error ECC syndrome = 15 bit33 = err cpu1 bit46 = corrected ecc error bit59 = misc error valid bus error 'local node origin, request didn't time out generic read mem transaction memory access, level generic' STATUS 9c0ac00200000813 MCGSTATUS 0 DDR2 DIMM 333 Mhz Synchronous Width 64 Data Width 72 Size 2 GB Device Locator: DIMM3 Bank Locator: BANK3 Manufacturer: Manufacturer3 Serial Number: SerNum3 Asset Tag: AssetTagNum3 Part Number: PartNum3 MCE 3 HARDWARE ERROR. This is *NOT* a software problem! Please contact your hardware vendor CPU 1 2 bus unit TSC c38ea19306 L2 cache ECC error Bus or cache array error bit46 = corrected ecc error bit62 = error overflow (multiple errors) bus error 'local node origin, request didn't time out prefetch mem transaction memory access, level generic' STATUS d000400000000863 MCGSTATUS 0 MCE 0 HARDWARE ERROR. This is *NOT* a software problem! Please contact your hardware vendor CPU 0 4 northbridge TSC 2d7050dbd77 MISC c008001100000000 ADDR 1d7e63358 Northbridge RAM ECC error ECC syndrome = 15 bit32 = err cpu0 bit46 = corrected ecc error bit59 = misc error valid bus error 'local node origin, request didn't time out generic read mem transaction memory access, level generic' STATUS 9c0ac00100000813 MCGSTATUS 0 WARNING: SMBIOS data is often unreliable. Take with a grain of salt! DDR2 DIMM 333 Mhz Synchronous Width 64 Data Width 72 Size 2 GB Device Locator: DIMM3 Bank Locator: BANK3 Manufacturer: Manufacturer3 Serial Number: SerNum3 Asset Tag: AssetTagNum3 Part Number: PartNum3 MCE 1 HARDWARE ERROR. This is *NOT* a software problem! Please contact your hardware vendor CPU 1 2 bus unit TSC 2d704fc7e14 L2 cache ECC error Bus or cache array error bit46 = corrected ecc error bus error 'local node origin, request didn't time out prefetch mem transaction memory access, level generic' STATUS 9000400000000863 MCGSTATUS 0 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From jrnosee at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 17:41:56 2009 From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee@gmail.com) Date: Sun Mar 1 17:42:10 2009 Subject: [Cialug] PIII socket 370 fans Message-ID: Anyone need PIII socket370 cpu fans/heatsinks? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090301/02a22810/attachment.html From james at dhlake.com Mon Mar 2 01:36:19 2009 From: james at dhlake.com (James Shoemaker) Date: Mon Mar 2 01:36:29 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> Nathan C. Smith wrote: > If you were headed westbound on 235 after 5:00 PM last night and hit > slow traffic because of an accident you can blame the guy that hit > me. (email me for his phone number). We got rear-ended last night > and my Hyundai Elantra is probably not revivable. > > Faced with the painful prospect of a new (at least to me) car, I'm > looking at options. My primary constraints are: * manual > transmission (because I feel it keeps me focused on driving - my mind > tends to wander) * reliable * safe * fuel-efficient (The hyundai was > a commuter and I would go exactly 2 weeks between refuels 27 ) > > I realize this is a bit of a shot in the dark but is anyone driving > something they are happy with or would recommend that meets these > constraints? I was going to suggest a VW Passat like I drive, I have put 81K miles on it without putting anything but gas, oil, and filters in it. It has a manual and gets 27-32 depending on driving/weather. But then I checked the web-site and they don't sell the manual Passat in the US anymore. That leaves me with a huge empty hole in what to buy to replace my car when the time comes. My requirements are even worse: 1: manual transmission. 2: decent handling. 3: decent power. 4: decent economy. 5: room for a wheelchair and walker and 3 people. 6: enough headroom for me to sit up The last knocks out any honda I have ridden in recently, The 5th and the second indicate a wagon (sport utes don't handle), knocking out many others. James From barry at vonahsen.com Mon Mar 2 07:37:55 2009 From: barry at vonahsen.com (Barry Von Ahsen) Date: Mon Mar 2 07:37:43 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> Message-ID: <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> James Shoemaker wrote: > I was going to suggest a VW Passat like I drive, I have put 81K miles > on it without putting anything but gas, oil, and filters in it. It has > a manual and gets 27-32 depending on driving/weather. But then I > checked the web-site and they don't sell the manual Passat in the US > anymore. That leaves me with a huge empty hole in what to buy to > replace my car when the time comes. > My requirements are even worse: > 1: manual transmission. > 2: decent handling. > 3: decent power. > 4: decent economy. > 5: room for a wheelchair and walker and 3 people. > 6: enough headroom for me to sit up > not sure which honda you looked at, but I've got a 2008 Fit sport, manual, gets 30+ combined driving, and I can sit up and finish off that last bit of pepsi big slam while driving. good power, good handling (I was able to hold my own as a n00b at a recent auto cross event), and the back seats fold up or down to give you really deep storage (seats up) or really big cargo room (backs down). you can also fold down both the front and back passenger seats to get almost 10'x4' storage - I was able to haul home my ikea wardrobe, which would never have fit in my S10 -barry From major.stubble at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 08:53:09 2009 From: major.stubble at gmail.com (Nathaniel Petersen) Date: Mon Mar 2 08:53:32 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> Message-ID: <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> Having recently test-driven a Fit (in anticipation of the new Insight), I can attest to the headroom. However, if you are all legs (as I recently indicated), expect to straddle the steering wheel. Plus, the manual that I drove had the clutch peddle closer to the break than I am comfortable with (I have wide feet, too). Both complaints are nothing new. I have them for most cars and S-10 sized trucks. It would help if the Fit's tilt wheel went up even half an inch more. I have this problem with my Elantra, so getting in and out is a little bit of a chore. But there is sufficient space between the clutch and the break that I don't have that issue to contend with. Have you test driven a VW Jetta TDI? They have a six-speed manual transmission, and a larger gap between the clutch and the break (almost 4" more than my Elantra). They have great handling, and a little bit more room between the floor and the console (they have a 'uniface' dash that is closer to the driver, making it difficult to straddle the steering console - so the added inches to the height are appreciated). My only problem is that it starts about 5K more than I usually budget for a new vehicle. By my math, I would have to drive my current vehicle nearly 75K, trouble-free miles more before I can save that 5K. Since diesel costs roughly 35? more right now (and I have no idea how this trends out, since I can't find actuarial data on diesel), I would have to get at a minimum one additional mile per gallon to break even. Trend data also shows that the Elantra has a lower cost per 10K miles over the first 150K for maintenance and repair costs (though this is in comparison to the 2006, non-diesel models). I don't want to sound like I'm praising the Elantra too much, and I'm sorry to hear that it took so much damage in your accident, but I really do love mine. Here is what Car and Driver had to say about the hatch-back version of the 2009. I am actually sad to see that Hyundai put traction control on this model, as I can not stand to lose that control. But that is a preference item, as I'm sure traction control and ABS saves lives. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/suvs_family_haulers/2009_hyundai_elantra_touring_short_take_road_test/(page)/1 -Nick PS: I know it doesn't help with your purchase now, but a hybrid Elantra is supposed to make it to the US in 2011 (2012 model). On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > James Shoemaker wrote: >> >> ?I was going to suggest a VW Passat like I drive, I have put 81K miles on >> it without putting anything but gas, oil, and filters in it. ?It has a >> manual and gets 27-32 depending on driving/weather. ?But then I checked the >> web-site and they don't sell the manual Passat in the US anymore. ?That >> leaves me with a huge empty hole in what to buy to replace my car when the >> time comes. >> ?My requirements are even worse: >> 1: manual transmission. >> 2: decent handling. >> 3: decent power. >> 4: decent economy. >> 5: room for a wheelchair and walker and 3 people. >> 6: enough headroom for me to sit up >> > > not sure which honda you looked at, but I've got a 2008 Fit sport, manual, > gets 30+ combined driving, and I can sit up and finish off that last bit of > pepsi big slam while driving. ?good power, good handling (I was able to hold > my own as a n00b at a recent auto cross event), and the back seats fold up > or down to give you really deep storage (seats up) or really big cargo room > (backs down). ?you can also fold down both the front and back passenger > seats to get almost 10'x4' storage - I was able to haul home my ikea > wardrobe, which would never have fit in my S10 > > -barry > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Mon Mar 2 09:39:00 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Mon Mar 2 09:39:38 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The more I hear from fellow Elantra drivers the more angry I get about having it damaged! That coupled with the fact that I had it tweaked where I wanted it (car stereo and decent after-market windshield wipers - it's the little things) and a nearly full tank of gas and the car itself was paid for. Grrr... When I bought the Elantra I wanted something with more performance too (Subaru WRX), but eventually I came to terms with the Elantra (the price was right) and becames as happy as I could be under the circumstances. The Elantra was super reliable, got decent mileage and was fairly fun to drive. I will also testify that it is pretty safe since my wife and I both walked away. The new Elantra Touring looks pretty nifty, I just wish they gave it a few more horsepower. It is using the same engine to carry a little more weight - about equivalent to another person. Like James, I would like a car with performance too, but that is further down the list as it is harder to justify to the spouse. I'm also leery of giving up that giant warranty to another manufacturer's. It is a complicated puzzle of compromises which makes the whole car-buying process even more daunting and adds to my frustration and anger. You'd think somebody with a few options would be happy, but they are not the right options! Oh, thank you Linux and *BSD where I am free to pick and choose - or not! -Nate > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Nathaniel Petersen > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:53 AM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. > > Having recently test-driven a Fit (in anticipation of the new > Insight), I can attest to the headroom. However, if you are all legs > (as I recently indicated), expect to straddle the steering wheel. > Plus, the manual that I drove had the clutch peddle closer to the > break than I am comfortable with (I have wide feet, too). > > Both complaints are nothing new. I have them for most cars and S-10 > sized trucks. It would help if the Fit's tilt wheel went up even half > an inch more. I have this problem with my Elantra, so getting in and > out is a little bit of a chore. But there is sufficient space between > the clutch and the break that I don't have that issue to contend with. > > Have you test driven a VW Jetta TDI? They have a six-speed manual > transmission, and a larger gap between the clutch and the break > (almost 4" more than my Elantra). They have great handling, and a > little bit more room between the floor and the console (they have a > 'uniface' dash that is closer to the driver, making it difficult to > straddle the steering console - so the added inches to the height are > appreciated). > > My only problem is that it starts about 5K more than I usually budget > for a new vehicle. By my math, I would have to drive my current > vehicle nearly 75K, trouble-free miles more before I can save that 5K. > Since diesel costs roughly 35? more right now (and I have no idea how > this trends out, since I can't find actuarial data on diesel), I would > have to get at a minimum one additional mile per gallon to break even. > Trend data also shows that the Elantra has a lower cost per 10K miles > over the first 150K for maintenance and repair costs (though this is > in comparison to the 2006, non-diesel models). > > I don't want to sound like I'm praising the Elantra too much, and I'm > sorry to hear that it took so much damage in your accident, but I > really do love mine. > > Here is what Car and Driver had to say about the hatch-back version of > the 2009. I am actually sad to see that Hyundai put traction control > on this model, as I can not stand to lose that control. But that is a > preference item, as I'm sure traction control and ABS saves lives. > > http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/suv > s_family_haulers/2009_hyundai_elantra_touring_short_take_road_ test/(page)/1 > > -Nick > > PS: I know it doesn't help with your purchase now, but a hybrid > Elantra is supposed to make it to the US in 2011 (2012 model). > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Barry Von Ahsen > wrote: > > James Shoemaker wrote: > >> > >> ?I was going to suggest a VW Passat like I drive, I have > put 81K miles on > >> it without putting anything but gas, oil, and filters in > it. ?It has a > >> manual and gets 27-32 depending on driving/weather. ?But > then I checked the > >> web-site and they don't sell the manual Passat in the US > anymore. ?That > >> leaves me with a huge empty hole in what to buy to replace > my car when the > >> time comes. > >> ?My requirements are even worse: > >> 1: manual transmission. > >> 2: decent handling. > >> 3: decent power. > >> 4: decent economy. > >> 5: room for a wheelchair and walker and 3 people. > >> 6: enough headroom for me to sit up > >> > > > > not sure which honda you looked at, but I've got a 2008 Fit > sport, manual, > > gets 30+ combined driving, and I can sit up and finish off > that last bit of > > pepsi big slam while driving. ?good power, good handling (I > was able to hold > > my own as a n00b at a recent auto cross event), and the > back seats fold up > > or down to give you really deep storage (seats up) or > really big cargo room > > (backs down). ?you can also fold down both the front and > back passenger > > seats to get almost 10'x4' storage - I was able to haul home my ikea > > wardrobe, which would never have fit in my S10 > > > > -barry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cialug mailing list > > Cialug@cialug.org > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 2 10:04:50 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 2 10:04:52 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AC03A2.5030805@dchamp.net> The pedals are *supposed* to be close together. Otherwise you can't heel-toe when you downshift. :) The Honda S2000's pedals are so close together that you have to choose which shoes you wear when you drive it, or you'll hit both the clutch and the brake pedal at the same time. I've heard that the Lotus Elise has even smaller pedals - a guy I know who's about 6'3" and probably size 12 shoes said it was just about impossible for him to drive... and he's owned both a S2000 and a Miata. I don't think either of those cars would fit Nate's criteria, so no worries there. If you want a performance car with a truck-like clutch pedal, try the BMW M3. I couldn't believe how long the clutch pedal throw is on those. James... as I mentioned, VW is going to the DSG transmission, which is a computer controlled manual transmission. It's not the same as getting a Pontiac conventional automatic with the paddle shifters... but as someone mentioned, the passenger version has a "nerfed" program, and people think it's pretty worthless to use it in the manual mode. The sporty cars like the GTI and R32 have a performance mode that gives you almost fully manual control, but it won't let you downshift to1st when you're doing 80mph... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox -dc Nathaniel Petersen wrote: > Having recently test-driven a Fit (in anticipation of the new > Insight), I can attest to the headroom. However, if you are all legs > (as I recently indicated), expect to straddle the steering wheel. > Plus, the manual that I drove had the clutch peddle closer to the > break than I am comfortable with (I have wide feet, too). > > Both complaints are nothing new. I have them for most cars and S-10 > sized trucks. It would help if the Fit's tilt wheel went up even half > an inch more. I have this problem with my Elantra, so getting in and > out is a little bit of a chore. But there is sufficient space between > the clutch and the break that I don't have that issue to contend with. > > Have you test driven a VW Jetta TDI? They have a six-speed manual > transmission, and a larger gap between the clutch and the break > (almost 4" more than my Elantra). They have great handling, and a > little bit more room between the floor and the console (they have a > 'uniface' dash that is closer to the driver, making it difficult to > straddle the steering console - so the added inches to the height are > appreciated). > > My only problem is that it starts about 5K more than I usually budget > for a new vehicle. By my math, I would have to drive my current > vehicle nearly 75K, trouble-free miles more before I can save that 5K. > Since diesel costs roughly 35? more right now (and I have no idea how > this trends out, since I can't find actuarial data on diesel), I would > have to get at a minimum one additional mile per gallon to break even. > Trend data also shows that the Elantra has a lower cost per 10K miles > over the first 150K for maintenance and repair costs (though this is > in comparison to the 2006, non-diesel models). > > I don't want to sound like I'm praising the Elantra too much, and I'm > sorry to hear that it took so much damage in your accident, but I > really do love mine. > > Here is what Car and Driver had to say about the hatch-back version of > the 2009. I am actually sad to see that Hyundai put traction control > on this model, as I can not stand to lose that control. But that is a > preference item, as I'm sure traction control and ABS saves lives. > > http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/suvs_family_haulers/2009_hyundai_elantra_touring_short_take_road_test/(page)/1 > > -Nick > > PS: I know it doesn't help with your purchase now, but a hybrid > Elantra is supposed to make it to the US in 2011 (2012 model). > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > >> James Shoemaker wrote: >> >>> I was going to suggest a VW Passat like I drive, I have put 81K miles on >>> it without putting anything but gas, oil, and filters in it. It has a >>> manual and gets 27-32 depending on driving/weather. But then I checked the >>> web-site and they don't sell the manual Passat in the US anymore. That >>> leaves me with a huge empty hole in what to buy to replace my car when the >>> time comes. >>> My requirements are even worse: >>> 1: manual transmission. >>> 2: decent handling. >>> 3: decent power. >>> 4: decent economy. >>> 5: room for a wheelchair and walker and 3 people. >>> 6: enough headroom for me to sit up >>> >>> >> not sure which honda you looked at, but I've got a 2008 Fit sport, manual, >> gets 30+ combined driving, and I can sit up and finish off that last bit of >> pepsi big slam while driving. good power, good handling (I was able to hold >> my own as a n00b at a recent auto cross event), and the back seats fold up >> or down to give you really deep storage (seats up) or really big cargo room >> (backs down). you can also fold down both the front and back passenger >> seats to get almost 10'x4' storage - I was able to haul home my ikea >> wardrobe, which would never have fit in my S10 >> >> -barry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cialug mailing list >> Cialug@cialug.org >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > From kristau at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 10:24:02 2009 From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau) Date: Mon Mar 2 10:24:27 2009 Subject: [Cialug] ZFS overview podcast: FLOSS Weekly #58 Message-ID: <3effba680903020824m528adf85g24715fb9701658a5@mail.gmail.com> Listening to this podcast as I type this e-mail: http://twit.tv/floss58 >From the link above: Hosts: Randal Schwartz and Leo Laporte ZFS, the Sun Microsystems-created file system providing simple administration, transactional semantics, end-to-end data integrity, and significant scalability. Guests: Aaron Newcomb and David Brittle for ZFS Aaron Newcomb's day job is being the Solutions Development Manager for Open Storage at Sun Microsystems. Open Storage refers to storage systems that are built with open source software like ZFS, open standards and open architecture. ZFS is a major component in each the systems that Aaron works with. When he is not working for Sun, Aaron is the host and producer of "the_source," a video podcast about all things related to open source software. The podcast is produced entirely with open source software, including Cinelerra (the open source video editor), GIMP, and Audacity. David Brittle's day job is being a software development manager for Sun Microsystems as. He has brought to market projects including NFS v4 and IETF development effort requiring open development, directed Connectathon (an IETF testing environment), and his latest product, ZFS. Share and Enjoy! From dave at 58ghz.net Mon Mar 2 10:52:10 2009 From: dave at 58ghz.net (Dave J. Hala Jr.) Date: Mon Mar 2 10:52:36 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1236012730.14166.69.camel@rhel5> Yeah, but if you buy the TDI, you can go around begging for fryer oil and burn that in the car in the summer, and not pay for diesel at all. On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 08:53 -0600, Nathaniel Petersen wrote: > Having recently test-driven a Fit (in anticipation of the new > Insight), I can attest to the headroom. However, if you are all legs > (as I recently indicated), expect to straddle the steering wheel. > Plus, the manual that I drove had the clutch peddle closer to the > break than I am comfortable with (I have wide feet, too). > > Both complaints are nothing new. I have them for most cars and S-10 > sized trucks. It would help if the Fit's tilt wheel went up even half > an inch more. I have this problem with my Elantra, so getting in and > out is a little bit of a chore. But there is sufficient space between > the clutch and the break that I don't have that issue to contend with. > > Have you test driven a VW Jetta TDI? They have a six-speed manual > transmission, and a larger gap between the clutch and the break > (almost 4" more than my Elantra). They have great handling, and a > little bit more room between the floor and the console (they have a > 'uniface' dash that is closer to the driver, making it difficult to > straddle the steering console - so the added inches to the height are > appreciated). > > My only problem is that it starts about 5K more than I usually budget > for a new vehicle. By my math, I would have to drive my current > vehicle nearly 75K, trouble-free miles more before I can save that 5K. > Since diesel costs roughly 35? more right now (and I have no idea how > this trends out, since I can't find actuarial data on diesel), I would > have to get at a minimum one additional mile per gallon to break even. > Trend data also shows that the Elantra has a lower cost per 10K miles > over the first 150K for maintenance and repair costs (though this is > in comparison to the 2006, non-diesel models). > > I don't want to sound like I'm praising the Elantra too much, and I'm > sorry to hear that it took so much damage in your accident, but I > really do love mine. > > Here is what Car and Driver had to say about the hatch-back version of > the 2009. I am actually sad to see that Hyundai put traction control > on this model, as I can not stand to lose that control. But that is a > preference item, as I'm sure traction control and ABS saves lives. > > http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/suvs_family_haulers/2009_hyundai_elantra_touring_short_take_road_test/(page)/1 > > -Nick > > PS: I know it doesn't help with your purchase now, but a hybrid > Elantra is supposed to make it to the US in 2011 (2012 model). > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > > James Shoemaker wrote: > >> > >> I was going to suggest a VW Passat like I drive, I have put 81K miles on > >> it without putting anything but gas, oil, and filters in it. It has a > >> manual and gets 27-32 depending on driving/weather. But then I checked the > >> web-site and they don't sell the manual Passat in the US anymore. That > >> leaves me with a huge empty hole in what to buy to replace my car when the > >> time comes. > >> My requirements are even worse: > >> 1: manual transmission. > >> 2: decent handling. > >> 3: decent power. > >> 4: decent economy. > >> 5: room for a wheelchair and walker and 3 people. > >> 6: enough headroom for me to sit up > >> > > > > not sure which honda you looked at, but I've got a 2008 Fit sport, manual, > > gets 30+ combined driving, and I can sit up and finish off that last bit of > > pepsi big slam while driving. good power, good handling (I was able to hold > > my own as a n00b at a recent auto cross event), and the back seats fold up > > or down to give you really deep storage (seats up) or really big cargo room > > (backs down). you can also fold down both the front and back passenger > > seats to get almost 10'x4' storage - I was able to haul home my ikea > > wardrobe, which would never have fit in my S10 > > > > -barry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cialug mailing list > > Cialug@cialug.org > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug -- ___ Dave J. Hala Jr. President OSIS, Inc. www.osis.us From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Mon Mar 2 10:59:57 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Mon Mar 2 11:00:23 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: <935ead450902271653p6d210261j8ff9bec75fc88d41@mail.gmail.com> References: <200902271615.56097.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200902271635.49326.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <935ead450902271653p6d210261j8ff9bec75fc88d41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-02-27 at 18:53:47, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: >I'm not sure if this is distro-specific or something from upstream, >but newer versions of SSH turn off X11 forwarding in the config files. > Check your config files for something like this: > >ForwardAgent no >ForwardX11 yes >ForwardX11Trusted yes I do have all the X11 forwarding stuff enabled and have for years. But, the issue i was seeing last week is no longer of as much importance to me. This week, after logging out for the weekend, X11 forwarding seems to be working as it always has. I don't know what was wrong with my session last week, but it is fixed now. Usually when any packages related to X get updated i try to log out and back in fairly soon to make sure everything is consistently using the updated package, but perhaps i neglected to do that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From tony at tonybibbs.com Mon Mar 2 11:05:00 2009 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Mon Mar 2 11:05:24 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Vmware player 2.5 using NAT Message-ID: I can't seem to get this working with Ubuntu as the host to an XP VM. 2.5 introduces a graphical installer to vmware-player which is really annoying. When I start my VM I get errors about not being able to open /dev/vmnet8. Anyway, vmware-config.pl doesn't exist with 2.5 so I'm clueless. My /var/log/vnetlib has a bunch of this: VNLNetCfgGetAnswerInt32 - Value not found or failed to convert value to integer: null VNL_Load - LOG_ERR logged VNL_Load - LOG_WRN logged VNL_Load - LOG_OK logged VNLNetCfgGetAnswerInt32 - Value not found or failed to convert value to integer: null VNL_Load - Successfully initialized Vnetlib VNLServiceStatus - pid: 10691 for Bridge service daemon on vnet: 0 is stale VNLExtractPidFromFile - Could not open the PID file: /var/run/vmnet-dhcpd-vmnet0.pid, error: No such file or directory VNLServiceStatus - Could not extract PID of DHCP VNLExtractPidFromFile - Could not open the PID file: /var/run/vmnet-natd-0.pid, error: No such file or directory VNLServiceStatus - Could not extract PID of NAT VNLAdapterStatus - ioctl: SIOCGIFFLAGS failed, error: No such device VNL_GetVnetFeatures - Returning features of vnet VNLExtractPidFromFile - Could not open the PID file: /var/run/vmnet-netifup-vmnet0.pid, error: No such file or directory VNLServiceStatus - Could not extract PID of Netifup VNL_GetServiceStatus - "Netifup" service is currently stopped on vnet: vmnet0 VNLExtractPidFromFile - Could not open the PID file: /var/run/vmnet-bridge-1.pid, error: No such file or directory VNLServiceStatus - Could not extract PID of Bridge VNLExtractPidFromFile - Could not open the PID file: /var/run/vmnet-dhcpd-vmnet1.pid, error: No such file or directory -- Tony Bibbs Email: tony@tonybibbs.com Phone: 515.554.8046 Twitter: tonybibbs Skype: tonybibbs Web: http://www.tonybibbs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090302/5d57d21f/attachment.htm From chris at ia.gov Mon Mar 2 11:10:43 2009 From: chris at ia.gov (chris) Date: Mon Mar 2 11:11:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Vmware player 2.5 using NAT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AC1313.8070506@ia.gov> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Tony Bibbs wrote: > I can't seem to get this working with Ubuntu as the host to an XP VM. > 2.5 introduces a graphical installer to vmware-player which is really > annoying. When I start my VM I get errors about not being able to open > /dev/vmnet8. > > Anyway, vmware-config.pl doesn't exist with 2.5 so I'm clueless. My > /var/log/vnetlib has a bunch of this: > > VNLNetCfgGetAnswerInt32 - Value not found or failed to convert value to > integer: null Looks like the vm* modules may not be loaded yet. lsmod and have a look. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmsExMACgkQPmaZdRmQd+Z0+wCfc9eRrVMNT57In7moPOIOjIB7 zaMAniRlLJTpAHIF6wNbpxmxnoKipHUN =Hc+i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tony at tonybibbs.com Mon Mar 2 11:20:42 2009 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Mon Mar 2 11:21:12 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Vmware player 2.5 using NAT Message-ID: [snip] Looks like the vm* modules may not be loaded yet. lsmod and have a look. [/snip] Here's what I show: Module Size Used by vmnet 48580 3 vmblock 21156 3 vmci 58964 0 vmmon 78064 0 -- Tony Bibbs Email: tony@tonybibbs.com Phone: 515.554.8046 Twitter: tonybibbs Skype: tonybibbs Web: http://www.tonybibbs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090302/349d61a7/attachment.html From djweis at internetsolver.com Mon Mar 2 12:03:23 2009 From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:03:48 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 Message-ID: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> I've got 5.2 installed on a new 2950. It's fully updated but if I leave it sitting for a couple days it kernel panics. I didn't see any other relevant looking things online. We ran a memory tester for 2 days and didn't have a single error. Any ideas? -- Dave Weis djweis@internetsolver.com http://www.internetsolver.com/ From david at bierce.org Mon Mar 2 12:10:37 2009 From: david at bierce.org (David Bierce) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:11:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: Have you ran the Dell Hardware checks? I've had CentOS 5.2 running on a Dell PE 2950 with an attached storage array under fairly heavy database load since ~December without any issues. Dave On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Dave Weis wrote: > > I've got 5.2 installed on a new 2950. It's fully updated but if I > leave it sitting for a couple days it kernel panics. I didn't see > any other relevant looking things online. We ran a memory tester for > 2 days and didn't have a single error. Any ideas? > > > -- > Dave Weis > djweis@internetsolver.com > http://www.internetsolver.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090302/1edf1b9c/attachment.htm From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Mon Mar 2 12:11:47 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:12:38 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: <49ABCCF7.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net> Does it kernel panic after two days in single user mode as well? If so, I'd suspect hardware. If not, I'd start looking at services. -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej@alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 >>> Dave Weis 03/02/09 12:03 PM >>> I've got 5.2 installed on a new 2950. It's fully updated but if I leave it sitting for a couple days it kernel panics. I didn't see any other relevant looking things online. We ran a memory tester for 2 days and didn't have a single error. Any ideas? -- Dave Weis djweis@internetsolver.com http://www.internetsolver.com/ _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From murraymckee at wellsfargo.com Mon Mar 2 12:36:50 2009 From: murraymckee at wellsfargo.com (murraymckee@wellsfargo.com) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:37:17 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. References: <49A8181A.4040203@dchamp.net><200902271111.07878.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <935ead450902270942o2362c3e3qd89888e2683eb719@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't let my daughter get her license until she could drive a clutch. She's going on a missions trip this summer and the van's they lease in Europe all have clutches for fuel economy reasons. Guess how many on the trip have experience with a clutch? She's the only gal that admitted it at any rate. She's going to come home and practice on my farm pickup before she heads to Europe. Murray McKee Operating Systems Engineer WFFIS - Wells Fargo Financial Information Systems 800 Walnut Street MAC F4030-037 Des Moines, IA 50309-3605 WORK (515)557-6127 Cell (NEW) (515) 343-6630 FAX (515) 557-6046 MurrayMcKee@WellsFargo.com "This message may contain confidential and / or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation." -----Original Message----- From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Ollie Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:42 AM To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: >>It's annoying how all the manufacturers do not offer manual >> transmissions in their "higher-end" trim levels. > > Why is that? Economics. Most people don't want manual transmissions any more, so it's not cost-effective to offer the option. I heard on NPR last night or this morning that GM lost almost $4000 on every car they sold last year. Do driver's ed programs even teach manual transmissions anymore? When I too driver's ed years ago, we spent maybe one or two class sessions on driving a manual. Fortunately my parents owned a car with a manual transmission so I learned pretty quickly. There's nothing like stopping at a stop sign that's at the top of a hill with an expensive sports car behind you to motivate you to learn! -- Jeff Ollie _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From djweis at internetsolver.com Mon Mar 2 12:46:55 2009 From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:47:20 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: <49AC299F.8060107@internetsolver.com> David Bierce wrote: > Have you ran the Dell Hardware checks? > > I've had CentOS 5.2 running on a Dell PE 2950 with an attached storage > array under fairly heavy database load since ~December without any issues. I did something wrong installing the bootloader and cleaned off the diagnostics accidentally. I finally got an error code out of it and found a couple more hits with that. It's never been in service and was a clean install. dave -- Dave Weis djweis@internetsolver.com http://www.internetsolver.com/ From tom at tcpconsulting.com Mon Mar 2 12:49:11 2009 From: tom at tcpconsulting.com (Tom Pohl) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:49:34 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: <5DEF488E-C4AD-4CF2-86F0-BDB2276BBEFE@tcpconsulting.com> Are you by chance running the 32bit version on 64 bit hardware? If not, is it the Intel processor or AMD? -Tom On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Dave Weis wrote: > > I've got 5.2 installed on a new 2950. It's fully updated but if I > leave it sitting for a couple days it kernel panics. I didn't see > any other relevant looking things online. We ran a memory tester for > 2 days and didn't have a single error. Any ideas? > > > -- > Dave Weis > djweis@internetsolver.com > http://www.internetsolver.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From djweis at internetsolver.com Mon Mar 2 12:52:51 2009 From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:53:15 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <5DEF488E-C4AD-4CF2-86F0-BDB2276BBEFE@tcpconsulting.com> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> <5DEF488E-C4AD-4CF2-86F0-BDB2276BBEFE@tcpconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49AC2B03.10009@internetsolver.com> Tom Pohl wrote: > Are you by chance running the 32bit version on 64 bit hardware? If not, > is it the Intel processor or AMD? It's an Intel processor, two of these: Quad Core Intel Xeon E5310, 2x4MB Cache, 1.60GHz, 1066MHz FSB Duh, I feel like a manager not knowing the difference :-) -- Dave Weis djweis@internetsolver.com http://www.internetsolver.com/ From major.stubble at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 12:53:14 2009 From: major.stubble at gmail.com (Nathaniel Petersen) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:53:39 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <49AC03A2.5030805@dchamp.net> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> <49AC03A2.5030805@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <1d8332a90903021053h5d9d605s12532a8b2d5be86c@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:04 AM, David Champion wrote: > The pedals are *supposed* to be close together. Otherwise you can't heel-toe > when you downshift. :) Huh. Forgive me if I'm being dense, but I thought when you heel/toed it was with the break and the gas not the clutch and the break. Not sure how that would work otherwise. See, this is why I double clutch downshift. But tractor-trailer habits die hard. -Nick From tom at tcpconsulting.com Mon Mar 2 12:56:46 2009 From: tom at tcpconsulting.com (Tom Pohl) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:57:09 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <49AC2B03.10009@internetsolver.com> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> <5DEF488E-C4AD-4CF2-86F0-BDB2276BBEFE@tcpconsulting.com> <49AC2B03.10009@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: <44A87DBC-1B02-4917-B669-B9BF80BE7B28@tcpconsulting.com> So are you running the 32bit centos or 64 bit? If you're running the 32bit, I've seen random crashes before. -Tom On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:52 PM, Dave Weis wrote: > Tom Pohl wrote: >> Are you by chance running the 32bit version on 64 bit hardware? If >> not, is it the Intel processor or AMD? > > It's an Intel processor, two of these: > Quad Core Intel Xeon E5310, 2x4MB Cache, 1.60GHz, 1066MHz FSB > > Duh, I feel like a manager not knowing the difference :-) > > > > -- > Dave Weis > djweis@internetsolver.com > http://www.internetsolver.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From djweis at internetsolver.com Mon Mar 2 12:59:48 2009 From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis) Date: Mon Mar 2 13:00:12 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <44A87DBC-1B02-4917-B669-B9BF80BE7B28@tcpconsulting.com> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> <5DEF488E-C4AD-4CF2-86F0-BDB2276BBEFE@tcpconsulting.com> <49AC2B03.10009@internetsolver.com> <44A87DBC-1B02-4917-B669-B9BF80BE7B28@tcpconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49AC2CA4.4020008@internetsolver.com> Tom Pohl wrote: > So are you running the 32bit centos or 64 bit? > > If you're running the 32bit, I've seen random crashes before. Probably 32 bit. It's on the way at a bit over a megabyte/second and will still take an hour. dave -- Dave Weis djweis@internetsolver.com http://www.internetsolver.com/ From tom at tcpconsulting.com Mon Mar 2 13:13:36 2009 From: tom at tcpconsulting.com (Tom Pohl) Date: Mon Mar 2 13:14:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <49AC2CA4.4020008@internetsolver.com> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> <5DEF488E-C4AD-4CF2-86F0-BDB2276BBEFE@tcpconsulting.com> <49AC2B03.10009@internetsolver.com> <44A87DBC-1B02-4917-B669-B9BF80BE7B28@tcpconsulting.com> <49AC2CA4.4020008@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: <931DB93F-94CA-4C17-8D46-E125C64D0567@tcpconsulting.com> Too bad you don't know anyone with some serious bandwidth ;) j/k I'm sure it's the other end's issue :) -Tom On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Dave Weis wrote: > Tom Pohl wrote: >> So are you running the 32bit centos or 64 bit? >> If you're running the 32bit, I've seen random crashes before. > > Probably 32 bit. It's on the way at a bit over a megabyte/second and > will still take an hour. > > dave > > > > -- > Dave Weis > djweis@internetsolver.com > http://www.internetsolver.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 2 15:03:14 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 2 15:03:11 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <49AC2CA4.4020008@internetsolver.com> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> <5DEF488E-C4AD-4CF2-86F0-BDB2276BBEFE@tcpconsulting.com> <49AC2B03.10009@internetsolver.com> <44A87DBC-1B02-4917-B669-B9BF80BE7B28@tcpconsulting.com> <49AC2CA4.4020008@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: <49AC4992.7080501@dchamp.net> Dave Weis wrote: > Tom Pohl wrote: >> So are you running the 32bit centos or 64 bit? >> >> If you're running the 32bit, I've seen random crashes before. > > Probably 32 bit. It's on the way at a bit over a megabyte/second and > will still take an hour. > > dave I haven't seen any issues with this...I'm running 32 bit Linux kernels on a couple of 64 bit processors, including an Intel core2duo (laptop) and an AMD X2. But I'm also running Mandriva on those, so the kernel is compiled with a lot of different options than CentOS... which is probably using the processor = fossilized flag. But I get my own unique headaches... At work we're running CentOS 5.2 64 bit, on a Dell 2950 with 2 Intel E5430 processors. It seems to be pretty stable. Is there any reason you can't run 64 bit? I run 32 bit on the desktop because some things don't (or didn't anyway) work well with the 64 bit kernel, like the flash plugin, and some games and 3rd party apps. -dc From icepuck2k at mchsi.com Mon Mar 2 18:38:02 2009 From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey) Date: Mon Mar 2 18:38:32 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <1d8332a90903021053h5d9d605s12532a8b2d5be86c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090303003809.B4C9FF1F7@www.cialug.org> -----Original Message----- From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Nathaniel Petersen Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:53 PM To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:04 AM, David Champion wrote: > The pedals are *supposed* to be close together. Otherwise you can't heel-toe > when you downshift. :) Huh. Forgive me if I'm being dense, but I thought when you heel/toed it was with the break and the gas not the clutch and the break. Not sure how that would work otherwise. See, this is why I double clutch downshift. But tractor-trailer habits die hard. -Nick Did you ever shift without the clutch? I was a fill in truck driver at my former job, I went back to driving four days after having my left foot operated on. I had to learn really fast. Down shifting without the clutch was even more exciting. -dh From atporter at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 19:07:26 2009 From: atporter at gmail.com (Aaron Porter) Date: Mon Mar 2 19:07:49 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200902271615.56097.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200902271635.49326.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <935ead450902271653p6d210261j8ff9bec75fc88d41@mail.gmail.com> <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <667aab920903021707i60c83697ob94d63de063e8043@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > But, the issue i was seeing last week is no longer of as much importance > to me. This week, after logging out for the weekend, X11 forwarding > seems to be working as it always has. I don't know what was wrong with > my session last week, but it is fixed now. Having X forwarding across an su should only work if you've done the appropriate xhost voodoo. From james at dhlake.com Mon Mar 2 20:37:51 2009 From: james at dhlake.com (James Shoemaker) Date: Mon Mar 2 20:38:08 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <49AC03A2.5030805@dchamp.net> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> <49AC03A2.5030805@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <49AC97FF.7040001@dhlake.com> >>> not sure which honda you looked at, but I've got a 2008 Fit sport, >>> manual, >>> gets 30+ combined driving, and I can sit up and finish off that last >>> bit of >>> pepsi big slam while driving. good power, good handling (I was able >>> to hold >>> my own as a n00b at a recent auto cross event), and the back seats >>> fold up >>> or down to give you really deep storage (seats up) or really big >>> cargo room >>> (backs down). you can also fold down both the front and back passenger >>> seats to get almost 10'x4' storage - I was able to haul home my ikea >>> wardrobe, which would never have fit in my S10 I rode in an accord with my head uncomfortably cocked to the left, not that it would have worked space wise anyway. The fit is definitely out (not enough room for 3 people AND a wheelchair and a walker). Folding down the seats isn't an option as then there's not room for 3 people anymore. I have the problem that my height is mostly torso, not legs. I don't even drive with the seat in my passat all the way back, but I have 3 inches between the top of my head and the roof (the fact that it doesn't have a sunroof helps there). James From james at dhlake.com Mon Mar 2 20:38:31 2009 From: james at dhlake.com (James Shoemaker) Date: Mon Mar 2 20:38:48 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <49AC03A2.5030805@dchamp.net> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> <49AC03A2.5030805@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <49AC9827.90202@dhlake.com> David Champion wrote: > The pedals are *supposed* to be close together. Otherwise you can't > heel-toe when you downshift. :) > > The Honda S2000's pedals are so close together that you have to choose > which shoes you wear when you drive it, or you'll hit both the clutch > and the brake pedal at the same time. I've heard that the Lotus Elise > has even smaller pedals - a guy I know who's about 6'3" and probably > size 12 shoes said it was just about impossible for him to drive... and > he's owned both a S2000 and a Miata. I don't think either of those cars > would fit Nate's criteria, so no worries there. > > If you want a performance car with a truck-like clutch pedal, try the > BMW M3. I couldn't believe how long the clutch pedal throw is on those. > > James... as I mentioned, VW is going to the DSG transmission, which is a > computer controlled manual transmission. It's not the same as getting a > Pontiac conventional automatic with the paddle shifters... but as > someone mentioned, the passenger version has a "nerfed" program, and > people think it's pretty worthless to use it in the manual mode. The > sporty cars like the GTI and R32 have a performance mode that gives you > almost fully manual control, but it won't let you downshift to1st when > you're doing 80mph... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox > The day they make a GTI or R32 wagon I will look back at VW then. James From kristau at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 21:08:29 2009 From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau) Date: Mon Mar 2 21:08:54 2009 Subject: [Cialug] PC diagnostics In-Reply-To: <92437.22741.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <3effba680902251659y290d0971n3786753de0f22e0f@mail.gmail.com> <92437.22741.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3effba680903021908t6798a6c0j1927275cdd06beb5@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Tom Sellers wrote: > > Thanks for the suggestions! ?I don't know what folding@home is at this point but will look into it. ?If this process encounters an error does it stop or what? The primary point of running folding@home (fah) is to provide CPU and RAM load on the system. In and of itself, fah's purpose is not to diagnose any problems with your computer, but it uses a lot of CPU and RAM which provides "stress" for your testing. Under the sort of stress fah provides, you will be looking for system lock-ups or kernel panics due to system overheating. If your system locks up after a few minutes or hours of running at 100% load, you may have a faulty fan or other cooling system component. -- Tired programmer Coding late into the night The core dump follows From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 2 21:17:21 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 2 21:17:10 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <20090303003809.B4C9FF1F7@www.cialug.org> References: <20090303003809.B4C9FF1F7@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: <49ACA141.3020904@dchamp.net> Dan Hockey wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf > Of Nathaniel Petersen > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:53 PM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:04 AM, David Champion wrote: >> The pedals are *supposed* to be close together. Otherwise you can't > heel-toe >> when you downshift. :) > > Huh. > > Forgive me if I'm being dense, but I thought when you heel/toed it was > with the break and the gas not the clutch and the break. Not sure how > that would work otherwise. > > See, this is why I double clutch downshift. But tractor-trailer > habits die hard. > > -Nick > > Did you ever shift without the clutch? I was a fill in truck driver at my > former job, I went back to driving four days after having my left foot > operated on. I had to learn really fast. Down shifting without the clutch > was even more exciting. > -dh You are correct, you're using the gas and the brake together with your right foot when you do a heel-toe downshift. For whatever reason, sports cars seem to have all 3 pedals close together.I've seen some people who will do left-foot "trail braking" with a manual transmission, or do left foot braking when they start into a braking zone, then switch feet when they have to shift. Personally I think that's too much to concentrate on. If you want to see some neat examples of that, watch the old movie "Grand Prix" with James Garner, from 1968. It has an extended scene of a driver's footwork as he does a lap around the track. I've done shifting without the clutch before with an old F-100 truck, I didn't feel so bad about trying it there, but that had a little more of a robust transmission than a modern economy car. :) Here's a clip from that movie, BTW... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw-MPf4GUU0 -dc From kristau at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 22:00:35 2009 From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau) Date: Mon Mar 2 22:00:58 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <3effba680903022000s60b33d35t28a241e0b566311f@mail.gmail.com> Have you tried running memtest86? The latest System Rescue CD, Knoppix, Ubuntu or most other live CDs have it as a boot option. That's what I'd try next if I found myself in your situation. later, kristau -- Tired programmer Coding late into the night The core dump follows From major.stubble at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 22:10:05 2009 From: major.stubble at gmail.com (Nathaniel Petersen) Date: Mon Mar 2 22:10:29 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: <667aab920903021707i60c83697ob94d63de063e8043@mail.gmail.com> References: <200902271615.56097.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200902271635.49326.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <935ead450902271653p6d210261j8ff9bec75fc88d41@mail.gmail.com> <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <667aab920903021707i60c83697ob94d63de063e8043@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1d8332a90903022010r6358aa82v95c1161099f8d1ff@mail.gmail.com> Actually, the voodoo for that isn't as bad as it would seem. I don't do this too oftain, but Blog O'Matty has a good writeup: http://prefetch.net/blog/index.php/2008/04/05/respect-my-xauthority/ It will not work in [Open]Solaris out of the box, as the Sun-packaged OpenSSH server has a bug in it that will dis-allow any X forwarding (the workaround requires a reverse tunnel through the localhost - easier to compile from source or use the Blastwave pagkages). -Nick On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Aaron Porter wrote: > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley > wrote: >> But, the issue i was seeing last week is no longer of as much importance >> to me. This week, after logging out for the weekend, X11 forwarding >> seems to be working as it always has. I don't know what was wrong with >> my session last week, but it is fixed now. > > Having X forwarding across an su should only work if you've done the > appropriate xhost voodoo. > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Tue Mar 3 08:36:54 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Tue Mar 3 08:37:18 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <3effba680903022000s60b33d35t28a241e0b566311f@mail.gmail.com> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <3effba680903022000s60b33d35t28a241e0b566311f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-02 at 22:00:35, kristau wrote: >Have you tried running memtest86? The latest System Rescue CD, >Knoppix, Ubuntu or most other live CDs have it as a boot option. >That's what I'd try next if I found myself in your situation. I've not tried any testing applications yet. I was actually thinking this morning (after the machine crashed twice again--the crashes always come in pairs, which seems odd) about either seeing if SuperMicro has a diagnostic for the motherboard, or running a memory test. I'll explore both of those options. The thing about memtest86, though, is that in my experience it just flat out doesn't work. I've let it run for days on machines that are known to have memory problems and it never finds them. And i've done this more than once. Never have i had it report errors, even on machines with known-bad RAM. I'll probably give it a shot soon though anyway. This weekend i can afford for the machine to be down for awhile. I'm also thinking of subscribing to debian-users and asking there. Not many mentions of mcelog in their archives, but that list has so many subscribers that someone's bound to have had the same problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From kristau at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 08:45:59 2009 From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau) Date: Tue Mar 3 08:46:23 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <3effba680903022000s60b33d35t28a241e0b566311f@mail.gmail.com> <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <3effba680903030645o6a06a82k341aadba76878a57@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > The thing about memtest86, though, is that in my experience it just flat > out doesn't work. I've let it run for days on machines that are known > to have memory problems and it never finds them. And i've done this > more than once. Never have i had it report errors, even on machines > with known-bad RAM. I'll probably give it a shot soon though anyway. > This weekend i can afford for the machine to be down for awhile. That's odd. I've had the opposite experience with memtest86. It has found bad RAM for me many times. I have had at least one case where it reported false errors, but upgrading to the next newer version fixed that issue. Still, it is worth trying even solely for the fact that it provides some load on the memory system to see if it crashes. -- Tired programmer Coding late into the night The core dump follows From barry at vonahsen.com Tue Mar 3 09:28:24 2009 From: barry at vonahsen.com (Barry Von Ahsen) Date: Tue Mar 3 09:28:20 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: safe/reliable fuel-efficient cars. In-Reply-To: <49AC97FF.7040001@dhlake.com> References: <49AB8C73.7070708@dhlake.com> <49ABE133.9050008@vonahsen.com> <1d8332a90903020653n649c8469y1afee8b171bc9c5c@mail.gmail.com> <49AC03A2.5030805@dchamp.net> <49AC97FF.7040001@dhlake.com> Message-ID: <49AD4C98.4080801@vonahsen.com> James Shoemaker wrote: > anymore. I have the problem that my height is mostly torso, not legs. > I don't even drive with the seat in my passat all the way back, but I > have 3 inches between the top of my head and the roof (the fact that it > doesn't have a sunroof helps there). I find body size interesting - my dad, my brother, and I are all basically the same height, but based on rear-view mirror position, I sit at least 2" lower than my brother, and an inch higher than my dad I must be mostly torso, my knees are 2-3" from the dash, but I've never had a problem with the wheel like Nick has , maybe I straddle more than I realize :) -barry From djweis at internetsolver.com Tue Mar 3 09:32:03 2009 From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis) Date: Tue Mar 3 09:32:26 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Dumb cacti question Message-ID: I've been unsuccessful in figuring this out... I have found and added a data template to cacti to graph router memory used/free. It shows up in the data template list but I haven't figured out how to make it into a real graph. Any other cacti users that can help? -- Dave Weis djweis@internetsolver.com http://www.internetsolver.com/ From newz at bearfruit.org Tue Mar 3 09:32:52 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Tue Mar 3 09:33:15 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <3effba680903022000s60b33d35t28a241e0b566311f@mail.gmail.com> <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > On 2009-03-02 at 22:00:35, kristau wrote: >>Have you tried running memtest86? ?The latest System Rescue CD, >>Knoppix, Ubuntu or most other live CDs have it as a boot option. >>That's what I'd try next if I found myself in your situation. > > I've not tried any testing applications yet. I was actually thinking > this morning (after the machine crashed twice again--the crashes always > come in pairs, which seems odd) about either seeing if SuperMicro has a > diagnostic for the motherboard, or running a memory test. I'll explore > both of those options. > > The thing about memtest86, though, is that in my experience it just flat > out doesn't work. I've let it run for days on machines that are known > to have memory problems and it never finds them. And i've done this > more than once. Never have i had it report errors, even on machines > with known-bad RAM. I've had it report errors for me. I find it quite useful but I always forget to run it until I'm at the point of serious frustration on the matter. Regarding crashes coming in pairs, is it possible the reason for the second crash is a warm-boot vs. cold-boot problem? For example, I've seen in several instances where a computer will not properly reset itself on warm-boot (reboot command or ctrl+alt+del or etc) and crash very shortly after boot. However if you hit the power button and give the computer 30s of rest then it works. This doesn't help your problem with the first crash of course. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Tue Mar 3 09:59:22 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Tue Mar 3 09:59:45 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <200903030959.22553.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-03 at 09:32:52, Matthew Nuzum wrote: >Regarding crashes coming in pairs, is it possible the reason for the >second crash is a warm-boot vs. cold-boot problem? For example, I've >seen in several instances where a computer will not properly reset >itself on warm-boot (reboot command or ctrl+alt+del or etc) and crash >very shortly after boot. However if you hit the power button and give >the computer 30s of rest then it works. I've seen situations similar to what you describe, where warm and cold boots differ in their result. In my case the machine crashes too totally for a warm boot to be possible, so i reboot by hitting the reset button on the front of the case. I didn't power cycle it. But i do let the BIOS RAM checks run to completion (does that zero out the RAM?). Hitting the reset button in most cases *should* be equivalent to a power outage, but i know it isn't *entirely* identical. The hard drives keep spinning for one thing, and i'm guessing miscellaneous device memory (such as drive controllers, graphics card, sound card buffer) might not be reset the same. After the second boot the machine seems to run fine for awhile. Several months ago it had this double crash problem, and then it was fine until this weekend. I figured i'd have a few more months again, but then it did it this morning. Arrrgh. I hope the problem turns out to be something relatively cheap and easy to fix, like RAM. All the components in the machine are name-brand and i've had it running 24/7 for about a year and a half though, so i'm not sure why it would start having trouble now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From matthew.nuzum at canonical.com Tue Mar 3 10:06:04 2009 From: matthew.nuzum at canonical.com (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Tue Mar 3 10:06:27 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Bypassing disk encryption Message-ID: Hi, internally we're discussing whole or partial disk encryption and it took an interesting turn. I thought you guys might like that last link to a 5m video demonstrating how to recover a bitlocker key after a computer was turned off. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter >> If your GPG key were stored on an encrypted partition like this and >> your laptop was stolen, would you revoke your key? > > This question comes up every now and then. I would revoke it, too, > however, it would be "just because". If you do believe that > cryptography is working, then you wouldn't really need to, and if you > believe that crypto can be broken, then you don't need to bother with > using gpg in the first place. > > Of course there's still the question of the strength of each system. > I didn't do an extensive research about the mean time of breaking a > 256 bit AES or a 2048 bit DH/RSA key, but they shouldn't be vastly > different (breaking DH/RSA takes magnitudes less than O(2^n)). But at > some point such considerations become irrelevant anyway, since a lot > of crypto attacks are done on errors on the implementation (timing, > memory use, power usage, etc.) > > Oh, and then of course there's always http://xkcd.com/538/ :) .. and ? ?http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/ *sigh* Best regards From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 3 10:16:11 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 3 10:16:14 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903030959.22553.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903030959.22553.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <49AD57CB.2060602@dchamp.net> Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > On 2009-03-03 at 09:32:52, Matthew Nuzum wrote: > >> Regarding crashes coming in pairs, is it possible the reason for the >> second crash is a warm-boot vs. cold-boot problem? For example, I've >> seen in several instances where a computer will not properly reset >> itself on warm-boot (reboot command or ctrl+alt+del or etc) and crash >> very shortly after boot. However if you hit the power button and give >> the computer 30s of rest then it works. >> > > I've seen situations similar to what you describe, where warm and cold > boots differ in their result. In my case the machine crashes too > totally for a warm boot to be possible, so i reboot by hitting the > reset button on the front of the case. I didn't power cycle it. But i > do let the BIOS RAM checks run to completion (does that zero out the > RAM?). Hitting the reset button in most cases *should* be equivalent to > a power outage, but i know it isn't *entirely* identical. The hard > drives keep spinning for one thing, and i'm guessing miscellaneous > device memory (such as drive controllers, graphics card, sound card > buffer) might not be reset the same. > > After the second boot the machine seems to run fine for awhile. Several > months ago it had this double crash problem, and then it was fine until > this weekend. I figured i'd have a few more months again, but then it > did it this morning. Arrrgh. > > I hope the problem turns out to be something relatively cheap and easy > to fix, like RAM. All the components in the machine are name-brand and > i've had it running 24/7 for about a year and a half though, so i'm not > sure why it would start having trouble now. > A warm boot and cold boot are pretty different. I've had situations where a device's firmware had to be initialized by booting into Windows to load it, then doing a warm boot into Linux, because the Linux driver wouldn't load the firmware. Don't recall off hand what that was, maybe a scsi controller, or a modem, and that was probably more than 10 years ago. :) There have been security notices about viruses that can survive a warm boot, by loading into a higher memory location in RAM. I'm sure there's probably a utility to look through RAM for interesting things. When I was taking mainframe programming classes at DMACC, it was always interesting when you crashed a program and got a hex dump of your memory space, and it contained un-initialized memory from someone elses's stuff. Sometimes you'd get some or all of another student's code or data. Of course, you'd get into a lot of trouble if they caught you doing this on purpose... -dc From jrnosee at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 10:21:01 2009 From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee@gmail.com) Date: Tue Mar 3 10:21:26 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Movie night TBD Message-ID: According to the site we have a movie night on 3/15, location TBD. Still happening/more info? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090303/7c233b72/attachment.html From newz at bearfruit.org Tue Mar 3 10:36:08 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Tue Mar 3 10:36:31 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <49AD57CB.2060602@dchamp.net> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903030959.22553.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <49AD57CB.2060602@dchamp.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:16 AM, David Champion wrote: >> I've seen situations similar to what you describe, where warm and cold >> boots differ in their result. In my case the machine crashes too totally for >> a warm boot to be possible, so i reboot by hitting the reset button on the >> front of the case. I didn't power cycle it. But i do let the BIOS RAM checks >> run to completion (does that zero out the RAM?). Hitting the reset button in >> most cases *should* be equivalent to a power outage, but i know it isn't >> *entirely* identical. The hard drives keep spinning for one thing, and i'm >> guessing miscellaneous device memory (such as drive controllers, graphics >> card, sound card buffer) might not be reset the same. Right. A reset is not considered a cold boot. > A warm boot and cold boot are pretty different. I've had situations where a > device's firmware had to be initialized by booting into Windows to load it, > then doing a warm boot into Linux, because the Linux driver wouldn't load > the firmware. Don't recall off hand what that was, maybe a scsi controller, > or a modem, and that was probably more than 10 years ago. :) > > There have been security notices about viruses that can survive a warm boot, > by loading into a higher memory location in RAM. > > I'm sure there's probably a utility to look through RAM for interesting > things. See the other message I sent to the list regarding bypassing bitlocker disk encryption. :-) It was entirely coincidental that I sent that while in the middle of this discussion. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From dchampion at visionary.com Tue Mar 3 10:58:15 2009 From: dchampion at visionary.com (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 3 10:58:12 2009 Subject: [Cialug] R.U.R. Message-ID: <9D6399605E7E0F478F276D41161AC1270724D324@exchange> I see on the calendar there is a proposed "Movie Night" on 3/15. Just putting this out as an option... The Des Moines Social Club http://www.desmoinessocialclub.org/ - is putting on a free production of the play "R.U.R. - Reason's Universal Robots", which was written in 1919, and is where the term robot was invented. Read the site or google it for more info. The play is also available for download since it's in the public domain, you'll probably want the English translation. It's playing from 3/4 to 3/15. -dc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090303/5e213efa/attachment.htm From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Tue Mar 3 10:58:53 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Tue Mar 3 10:59:16 2009 Subject: [Cialug] RE: R.U.R. In-Reply-To: <9D6399605E7E0F478F276D41161AC1270724D324@exchange> References: <9D6399605E7E0F478F276D41161AC1270724D324@exchange> Message-ID: I thought it was Rossum's Universal Robots. ________________________________ From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of David Champion Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:58 AM To: cialug@cialug.org Subject: [Cialug] R.U.R. I see on the calendar there is a proposed "Movie Night" on 3/15. Just putting this out as an option... The Des Moines Social Club http://www.desmoinessocialclub.org/ - is putting on a free production of the play "R.U.R. - Reason's Universal Robots", which was written in 1919, and is where the term robot was invented. Read the site or google it for more info. The play is also available for download since it's in the public domain, you'll probably want the English translation. It's playing from 3/4 to 3/15. -dc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090303/0e2e7ca6/attachment.html From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 3 11:04:12 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 3 11:04:08 2009 Subject: [Cialug] RE: R.U.R. In-Reply-To: References: <9D6399605E7E0F478F276D41161AC1270724D324@exchange> Message-ID: <49AD630C.3070002@dchamp.net> You are correct. I was reading it off of the Des Moines Social Club web site, and they had it wrong. :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R._(Rossum%27s_Universal_Robots) -dc Nathan C. Smith wrote: > I thought it was Rossum's Universal Robots. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] *On Behalf Of *David Champion > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:58 AM > *To:* cialug@cialug.org > *Subject:* [Cialug] R.U.R. > > I see on the calendar there is a proposed "Movie Night" on 3/15. > > Just putting this out as an option... > > The Des Moines Social Club http://www.desmoinessocialclub.org/ - > is putting on a free production of the play "R.U.R. - Reason's > Universal Robots", which was written in 1919, and is where the > term robot was invented. Read the site or google it for more info. > The play is also available for download since it's in the public > domain, you'll probably want the English translation. > > It's playing from 3/4 to 3/15. > > -dc > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Tue Mar 3 11:08:22 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Tue Mar 3 11:09:14 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Movie night TBD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AD0F98.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net> At the last meeting, Dan Arthur volunteered to check out times that his building's rumpus room is available. Once we know that, we'll pick a Saturday and it'll be a "bring your own DVDs" and we pick and go. Presumably, we will also bring refreshments, once we know what restrictions the building places on such events. -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej@alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 >>> 03/03/09 10:21 AM >>> According to the site we have a movie night on 3/15, location TBD. Still happening/more info? From atporter at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 13:25:56 2009 From: atporter at gmail.com (Aaron Porter) Date: Tue Mar 3 13:26:20 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <3effba680903022000s60b33d35t28a241e0b566311f@mail.gmail.com> <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <667aab920903031125wa857d9asa74b64187a8a6713@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > The thing about memtest86, though, is that in my experience it just flat > out doesn't work. I've let it run for days on machines that are known > to have memory problems and it never finds them. When running memtest on "server grade" hardware it's important to disable ECC in the system BIOS. I've had vendors swear up and down that there are no memory issues as they were testing the error correction and not the memory itself. From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Tue Mar 3 13:55:17 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Tue Mar 3 13:55:40 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <667aab920903031125wa857d9asa74b64187a8a6713@mail.gmail.com> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903030836.54932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <667aab920903031125wa857d9asa74b64187a8a6713@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903031355.17932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-03 at 13:25:56, Aaron Porter wrote: > wrote: >> The thing about memtest86, though, is that in my experience it just >> flat out doesn't work. I've let it run for days on machines that are >> known to have memory problems and it never finds them. > >When running memtest on "server grade" hardware it's important to >disable ECC in the system BIOS. I've had vendors swear up and down >that there are no memory issues as they were testing the error >correction and not the memory itself. Thanks for the hint. In the past i've only run memtest86 on cheap desktop hardware without ECC. My desktop machine at home is "server grade" hardware, to the limit of what budget i was able to rationalize at the time. It does have ECC RAM. I'll be sure to disable the ECC when running memtest86. My previous machine was also "server grade" hardware and ended up being my primary machine for 9 years with very little upgrades--the only major one was replacing the SCSI subsystem (controller, CD-RW drive, hard drive) with SATA. I was hoping that if i used high quality hardware that i could have another machine that would last a long time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 3 14:09:41 2009 From: tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com (Tom Sellers) Date: Tue Mar 3 14:10:05 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <59502.43239.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dan, Can you point me to some information on how to use X over ssh? I just recently figured out how to get ssh working from work to home but would love to be able to do so with a graphical desktop screen. Tom --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > From: Daniel A. Ramaley > Subject: Re: [Cialug] SSH annoyance > To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" > Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 10:59 AM > On 2009-02-27 at 18:53:47, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: > >I'm not sure if this is distro-specific or > something from upstream, > >but newer versions of SSH turn off X11 forwarding in > the config files. > > Check your config files for something like this: > > > >ForwardAgent no > >ForwardX11 yes > >ForwardX11Trusted yes > > I do have all the X11 forwarding stuff enabled and have for > years. > > But, the issue i was seeing last week is no longer of as > much importance > to me. This week, after logging out for the weekend, X11 > forwarding > seems to be working as it always has. I don't know what > was wrong with > my session last week, but it is fixed now. Usually when any > packages > related to X get updated i try to log out and back in > fairly soon to > make sure everything is consistently using the updated > package, but > perhaps i neglected to do that. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, > Drake University > Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave > +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 > USA > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From John.Lengeling at radisys.com Tue Mar 3 14:13:27 2009 From: John.Lengeling at radisys.com (John Lengeling) Date: Tue Mar 3 14:13:47 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: <59502.43239.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <59502.43239.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just invoke ssh with: Ssh -X remote-host Then once you are logged in, start a simple X app like xclock to test. X11 over a WAN/dsl/cable connection can be slooow. VNC server would be a better choice to use IMHO over a WAN connection. YMMV. johnl -----Original Message----- From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sellers Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:10 PM To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Cialug] SSH annoyance Dan, Can you point me to some information on how to use X over ssh? I just recently figured out how to get ssh working from work to home but would love to be able to do so with a graphical desktop screen. Tom --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > From: Daniel A. Ramaley > Subject: Re: [Cialug] SSH annoyance > To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" > Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 10:59 AM > On 2009-02-27 at 18:53:47, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: > >I'm not sure if this is distro-specific or > something from upstream, > >but newer versions of SSH turn off X11 forwarding in > the config files. > > Check your config files for something like this: > > > >ForwardAgent no > >ForwardX11 yes > >ForwardX11Trusted yes > > I do have all the X11 forwarding stuff enabled and have for > years. > > But, the issue i was seeing last week is no longer of as > much importance > to me. This week, after logging out for the weekend, X11 > forwarding > seems to be working as it always has. I don't know what > was wrong with > my session last week, but it is fixed now. Usually when any > packages > related to X get updated i try to log out and back in > fairly soon to > make sure everything is consistently using the updated > package, but > perhaps i neglected to do that. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, > Drake University > Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave > +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 > USA > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From newz at bearfruit.org Tue Mar 3 14:21:19 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Tue Mar 3 14:21:43 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: References: <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <59502.43239.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:13 PM, John Lengeling wrote: > Just invoke ssh with: > > Ssh -X remote-host > > Then once you are logged in, start a simple X app like xclock to test. > > X11 over a WAN/dsl/cable connection can be slooow. ? VNC server would be > a better choice to use IMHO over a WAN connection. ?YMMV. > Or on some machines, ssh -Y remote-host You can also add the command line to the end. So if you want to run synaptic you can do: ssh -X home-machine synaptic or ssh -Y home-machine synaptic If you're not on a lan then you may want to add -C to enable compression. If you're just doing X apps it can help a lot. If you're running VNC it may not be necessary since commonly VNC has it's own compression. ssh -YC home-machine synaptic -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 3 14:22:45 2009 From: tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com (Tom Sellers) Date: Tue Mar 3 14:23:08 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <3effba680903022000s60b33d35t28a241e0b566311f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <874524.54976.qm@web56301.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I did that for about 10 hours with no problems. This was about 11 or 12 complete cycles of ram test. The more I look at this the more I think the problem is with the software and not any hardware issue. I brought this system up on a CD based linux system and ran it overnight without any issues. --- On Mon, 3/2/09, kristau wrote: > From: kristau > Subject: Re: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog > To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" > Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 10:00 PM > Have you tried running memtest86? The latest System Rescue > CD, > Knoppix, Ubuntu or most other live CDs have it as a boot > option. > That's what I'd try next if I found myself in your > situation. > > later, > kristau > -- > Tired programmer > Coding late into the night > The core dump follows > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Tue Mar 3 14:30:08 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Tue Mar 3 14:30:32 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: References: <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <59502.43239.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200903031430.08367.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-03 at 14:13:27, John Lengeling wrote: >Just invoke ssh with: > >Ssh -X remote-host Once you know it works, you can make it permanent by adding "ForwardX11 yes" to your ~/.ssh/config file. If you want to limit it to just 1 host, try something like this in ~/.ssh/config, replacing the example remote host with something more interesting: Host remotehost.example.com ForwardX11 yes Compression yes ServerAliveInterval 300 I add those last 2 lines for hosts that are on slow connections which are prone to timeouts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 3 14:44:18 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 3 14:44:17 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: <200903031430.08367.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <59502.43239.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200903031430.08367.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <49AD96A2.9090108@dchamp.net> Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > On 2009-03-03 at 14:13:27, John Lengeling wrote: > >> Just invoke ssh with: >> >> Ssh -X remote-host >> > > Once you know it works, you can make it permanent by adding > "ForwardX11 yes" to your ~/.ssh/config file. If you want to limit it to > just 1 host, try something like this in ~/.ssh/config, replacing the > example remote host with something more interesting: > > Host remotehost.example.com > ForwardX11 yes > Compression yes > ServerAliveInterval 300 > > I add those last 2 lines for hosts that are on slow connections which > are prone to timeouts. > Note: there is also a TCPKeepAlive option, but it's not recommended that you use that because it can allow your connection to be spoofed, instead use the ServerAliveInterval and ServerAliveCountMax settings as Dan suggests. Here's an article that talks about those: http://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/comp/sofi/facility-access/ssh-stable-con A lot of servers & firewalls are set up to drop idle connections, for "security reasons", but there are cases where you need to leave a ssh connection up, like doing a tunnel for instance, or because you don't like to re-authenticate every 2 minutes. -dc From tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 3 15:03:34 2009 From: tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com (Tom Sellers) Date: Tue Mar 3 15:03:57 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <874524.54976.qm@web56301.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <469756.87162.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Sorry! I think I jumped in the middle of a conversation that was unrelated to what I was referring to. I was going back to the request I had made for diagnostics on a machine giving me problems. This was someone elses thread not mine. --- On Tue, 3/3/09, Tom Sellers wrote: > From: Tom Sellers > Subject: Re: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog > To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" > Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 2:22 PM > I did that for about 10 hours with no problems. This was > about 11 or 12 complete cycles of ram test. > > The more I look at this the more I think the problem is > with the software and not any hardware issue. > > I brought this system up on a CD based linux system and ran > it overnight without any issues. > > > --- On Mon, 3/2/09, kristau > wrote: > > > From: kristau > > Subject: Re: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog > > To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" > > > Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 10:00 PM > > Have you tried running memtest86? The latest System > Rescue > > CD, > > Knoppix, Ubuntu or most other live CDs have it as a > boot > > option. > > That's what I'd try next if I found myself in > your > > situation. > > > > later, > > kristau > > -- > > Tired programmer > > Coding late into the night > > The core dump follows > > _______________________________________________ > > Cialug mailing list > > Cialug@cialug.org > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 3 15:12:06 2009 From: tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com (Tom Sellers) Date: Tue Mar 3 15:12:29 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: <200903031430.08367.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <39943.27805.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 3/3/09, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > From: Daniel A. Ramaley > Subject: Re: [Cialug] SSH annoyance > To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" > Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 2:30 PM > On 2009-03-03 at 14:13:27, John Lengeling wrote: > >Just invoke ssh with: > > > >Ssh -X remote-host > > Once you know it works, you can make it permanent by adding > "ForwardX11 yes" to your ~/.ssh/config file. If > you want to limit it to > just 1 host, try something like this in ~/.ssh/config, > replacing the > example remote host with something more interesting: > > Host remotehost.example.com > ForwardX11 yes > Compression yes > ServerAliveInterval 300 > > I add those last 2 lines for hosts that are on slow > connections which > are prone to timeouts. I use a product in the Windows environment called Remote Admin to connect to remote workstations and make changes. This allows me to actually see the user's desktop screen. Is this possible using this method or does that require some other software package? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, > Drake University > Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave > +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 > USA > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Tue Mar 3 15:48:30 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Tue Mar 3 15:48:53 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: <39943.27805.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <39943.27805.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200903031548.30769.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> It is possible to get a Windows-like remote desktop on Linux, but not with a default configuration of X. Getting your own desktop that is completely separate from the user sitting at the console is rather trivial (i use VNC running as a daemon for that function, and then connect to it with VNC piped over SSH), but connecting to the same X display as the console usually requires running some kind of X wrapper on the console. And that usually precludes 3D acceleration or other fancy features that the local user might otherwise expect. Note that i've not actually tried to do this, so take what i say with a grain of salt. On 2009-03-03 at 15:12:06, Tom Sellers wrote: >I use a product in the Windows environment called Remote Admin to > connect to remote workstations and make changes. This allows me to > actually see the user's desktop screen. Is this possible using this > method or does that require some other software package? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From nathanism at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 15:52:35 2009 From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien) Date: Tue Mar 3 15:52:59 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: <200903031548.30769.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <39943.27805.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200903031548.30769.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <8b490d600903031352k42a7fa2csc59017769316c59c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > It is possible to get a Windows-like remote desktop on Linux, but not > with a default configuration of X. Getting your own desktop that is > completely separate from the user sitting at the console is rather > trivial (i use VNC running as a daemon for that function, and then > connect to it with VNC piped over SSH), but connecting to the same X > display as the console usually requires running some kind of X wrapper > on the console. And that usually precludes 3D acceleration or other > fancy features that the local user might otherwise expect. Note that > i've not actually tried to do this, so take what i say with a grain of > salt. This is correct. I typically do this with a program called x11vnc, which is packaged in Debian, Ubuntu, and no doubt others. x11vnc sets up a VNC server which connects to an existing X session, so it's more like how VNC works on windows. If I move the mouse in the VNC session, someone at the local screen can see it moving around, etc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090303/b2a62d67/attachment.htm From zach at kotlarek.com Tue Mar 3 16:03:34 2009 From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek) Date: Tue Mar 3 16:04:01 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH annoyance In-Reply-To: <49AD96A2.9090108@dchamp.net> References: <200903021059.57361.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <59502.43239.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200903031430.08367.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <49AD96A2.9090108@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <0BF85424-413C-482A-978F-744AA49D140F@kotlarek.com> On Mar 3, 2009, at 2:44 PM, David Champion wrote: > Note: there is also a TCPKeepAlive option, but it's not recommended > that you use that because it can allow your connection to be > spoofed, instead use the ServerAliveInterval and ServerAliveCountMax > settings as Dan suggests. TCP keepalives can be spoofed, at least if you're in a position to do TCP spoofing in general, but in most cases that is does not pose any significant risk. The only spoofing that can be done is to watch for a connection that goes dead but does not close and then send fake keepalives to keep the TCP connection open. As far as I can tell there's no practical increased risk if you do not rely on knowing exactly when SSH sessions, and you get the benefit of reaping half- dead connections (not terribly important for the client, but useful server-side). Also note that TCPKeepAlives is on by default, so you must explicitly disable it if you don't want to use them. As other have noted you still probably want ServerAlive/ClientAlive if your goal is to generate activity on a frequent basis or know quickly when the remote host becomes unreachable. Spoofing issues aside, TCP keepalives just have too long a timeout (typically 2 hours, and configurable only for the whole TCP stack) to be useful for such purposes. Zach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090303/1c1fb6a3/smime.bin From icepuck2k at mchsi.com Tue Mar 3 21:59:13 2009 From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey) Date: Tue Mar 3 21:59:40 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: <39943.27805.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090304035915.14684ED64@www.cialug.org> After watching this thread I started trying to do x11 ssh again and still can't get it to work. Is there a ~/.ssh/config in mandriva 2k7? Or is because I'm trying to view it through PuTTy.exe I even tried vnc with no luck. Has anyone done an x11 forwarding to windows? -dh From tim_linux at wilson-home.com Tue Mar 3 22:11:15 2009 From: tim_linux at wilson-home.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Tue Mar 3 22:11:41 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: <20090304035915.14684ED64@www.cialug.org> References: <39943.27805.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20090304035915.14684ED64@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: <5a9568c20903032011y22c9b31fwa09b90b4eecf88cb@mail.gmail.com> I've done it through Cygwin. Of course, you have to have an X server running on Windows for it to work. Cygwin's X is OK. On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Dan Hockey wrote: > After watching this thread I started trying to do x11 ssh again and still > can't get it to work. Is there a ~/.ssh/config in mandriva 2k7? Or is > because I'm trying to view it through PuTTy.exe I even tried vnc with no > luck. > Has anyone done an x11 forwarding to windows? > -dh > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -- Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090303/2bdb89b5/attachment.htm From eric at eric.nu Tue Mar 3 22:14:02 2009 From: eric at eric.nu (Eric Junker) Date: Tue Mar 3 22:14:32 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: <20090304035915.14684ED64@www.cialug.org> References: <20090304035915.14684ED64@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: <49AE000A.5020505@eric.nu> Dan Hockey wrote: > Has anyone done an x11 forwarding to windows? I've used Xming X server on Windows http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ Eric From tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 3 22:24:32 2009 From: tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com (Tom Sellers) Date: Tue Mar 3 22:24:56 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list Message-ID: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I have noticed since joining this mail list that I seem to get several messages out of order for some reason. For example I read all new mail before leaving work and tonight when I logged on there were 4 or 5 new messages that I had not read intermingled with the ones I had already read earlier. Is this a common occurrance on such a mailing list? Is there a reason why I would have mail that shows up much later than earlier messages that have already been read but with older timestamps? From nathanism at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 22:43:32 2009 From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien) Date: Tue Mar 3 22:43:56 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: <49AE000A.5020505@eric.nu> References: <20090304035915.14684ED64@www.cialug.org> <49AE000A.5020505@eric.nu> Message-ID: <8b490d600903032043k6b899e5awc526cc346c0bbbc5@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Eric Junker wrote: > Dan Hockey wrote: > >> Has anyone done an x11 forwarding to windows? >> > > I've used Xming X server on Windows > http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ Seconded. Works very well for me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090303/47a92923/attachment.html From tim_linux at wilson-home.com Tue Mar 3 22:47:12 2009 From: tim_linux at wilson-home.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Tue Mar 3 22:47:35 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list In-Reply-To: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5a9568c20903032047i12a3706eja1cbb6372137ecd9@mail.gmail.com> Sorry to say it, but it could be Yahoo. I've had problems with Yahoo delaying e-mails for hours or even days or even losing them entirely. I have a Yahoo account, but I much prefer my GMail account. If you don't have one and would like one, e-mail me off-list and I'll send you an invite (I think you still need to be invited). On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Tom Sellers wrote: > > I have noticed since joining this mail list that I seem to get several > messages out of order for some reason. For example I read all new mail > before leaving work and tonight when I logged on there were 4 or 5 new > messages that I had not read intermingled with the ones I had already read > earlier. > > Is this a common occurrance on such a mailing list? Is there a reason why > I would have mail that shows up much later than earlier messages that have > already been read but with older timestamps? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -- Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090303/d8af6cf0/attachment.htm From tdwalton at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 06:12:15 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Wed Mar 4 06:12:39 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list In-Reply-To: <5a9568c20903032047i12a3706eja1cbb6372137ecd9@mail.gmail.com> References: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5a9568c20903032047i12a3706eja1cbb6372137ecd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Tim Wilson wrote: > Sorry to say it, but it could be Yahoo.? I've had problems with Yahoo > delaying e-mails for hours or even days or even losing them entirely.? I > have a Yahoo account, but I much prefer my GMail account.? If you don't have > one and would like one, e-mail me off-list and I'll send you an invite (I > think you still need to be invited). Nope. One can sign up on one's own these days. Also, I second the Yahoo diagnosis, based on personal experience. -todd From timchampion at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 09:17:41 2009 From: timchampion at gmail.com (Tim Champion) Date: Wed Mar 4 09:18:08 2009 Subject: [Cialug] super cheap netbook Message-ID: <7aa1cdb20903040717r4c3a1036j651f083aea5e66d7@mail.gmail.com> Ok, this is a little off subject, but so was the car thread, so *shrug* I've been paying close attention to the netbook scene, and I got a promo email from mwave today with a super-cheap refurb netbook Eee PC 900A 8.9 inch netbook w/ Linux for $180 http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SkuSearch_v2.asp?SCriteria=ba25872 I've seen this price for the 7 inch model, but never for the 9 inch model. Thought somebody might be interested. Tim Champion timchampion@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090304/c2d5f71d/attachment.html From dave at dchamp.net Wed Mar 4 09:53:04 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Wed Mar 4 09:53:08 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list In-Reply-To: References: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5a9568c20903032047i12a3706eja1cbb6372137ecd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AEA3E0.8020005@dchamp.net> Todd Walton wrote: > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Tim Wilson wrote: > >> Sorry to say it, but it could be Yahoo. I've had problems with Yahoo >> delaying e-mails for hours or even days or even losing them entirely. I >> have a Yahoo account, but I much prefer my GMail account. If you don't have >> one and would like one, e-mail me off-list and I'll send you an invite (I >> think you still need to be invited). >> > > Nope. One can sign up on one's own these days. > > Also, I second the Yahoo diagnosis, based on personal experience. > > -todd > If you watch the outgoing mailq on a mail server, you may see that messages going to yahoo or aol will randomly sit in your queue for days before going out. At one point you could pretty much count on aol emails to take longer to get accepted by them than if you sent a letter by snail mail. -dc From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Wed Mar 4 09:54:45 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Wed Mar 4 09:55:12 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list In-Reply-To: <49AEA3E0.8020005@dchamp.net> References: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5a9568c20903032047i12a3706eja1cbb6372137ecd9@mail.gmail.com> <49AEA3E0.8020005@dchamp.net> Message-ID: Or you can go through the AOL routine of telling them about your server and your business and promising not to spam them so your messages will get accepted faster. Dmaned if I can find the link now though. -Nate > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of David Champion > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:53 AM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [Cialug] Question about mail list > > Todd Walton wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Tim Wilson > wrote: > > > >> Sorry to say it, but it could be Yahoo. I've had problems > with Yahoo > >> delaying e-mails for hours or even days or even losing > them entirely. > >> I have a Yahoo account, but I much prefer my GMail > account. If you > >> don't have one and would like one, e-mail me off-list and > I'll send > >> you an invite (I think you still need to be invited). > >> > > > > Nope. One can sign up on one's own these days. > > > > Also, I second the Yahoo diagnosis, based on personal experience. > > > > -todd > > > > If you watch the outgoing mailq on a mail server, you may see > that messages going to yahoo or aol will randomly sit in your > queue for days before going out. At one point you could > pretty much count on aol emails to take longer to get > accepted by them than if you sent a letter by snail mail. > > -dc > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 09:50:30 2009 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed Mar 4 09:59:01 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list In-Reply-To: References: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5a9568c20903032047i12a3706eja1cbb6372137ecd9@mail.gmail.com> <49AEA3E0.8020005@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <49AEA346.8040502@gmail.com> Good old AOL not understanding how the email system is supposed to work. I already had low opinions of them due to the spam and spam reporting policies they have, this just manages to dig them even lower. Jeff Nathan C. Smith wrote: > Or you can go through the AOL routine of telling them about your server and your business and promising not to spam them so your messages will get accepted faster. Dmaned if I can find the link now though. > > -Nate > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org >> [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of David Champion >> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:53 AM >> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group >> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Question about mail list >> >> Todd Walton wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Tim Wilson >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> Sorry to say it, but it could be Yahoo. I've had problems >>>> >> with Yahoo >> >>>> delaying e-mails for hours or even days or even losing >>>> >> them entirely. >> >>>> I have a Yahoo account, but I much prefer my GMail >>>> >> account. If you >> >>>> don't have one and would like one, e-mail me off-list and >>>> >> I'll send >> >>>> you an invite (I think you still need to be invited). >>>> >>>> >>> Nope. One can sign up on one's own these days. >>> >>> Also, I second the Yahoo diagnosis, based on personal experience. >>> >>> -todd >>> >>> >> If you watch the outgoing mailq on a mail server, you may see >> that messages going to yahoo or aol will randomly sit in your >> queue for days before going out. At one point you could >> pretty much count on aol emails to take longer to get >> accepted by them than if you sent a letter by snail mail. >> >> -dc >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cialug mailing list >> Cialug@cialug.org >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >> _______________________________________________ >> > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Wed Mar 4 10:09:15 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Wed Mar 4 10:09:38 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list In-Reply-To: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200903041009.15806.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-03 at 22:24:32, Tom Sellers wrote: >Is this a common occurrance on such a mailing list? Is there a reason >why I would have mail that shows up much later than earlier messages >that have already been read but with older timestamps? In my experience, that's normal for all mailing lists, regardless of who hosts your e-mail account. It is common for replies to arrive before the original message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From cwfreeman at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 10:10:51 2009 From: cwfreeman at gmail.com (Chris Freeman) Date: Wed Mar 4 10:11:14 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list In-Reply-To: References: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5a9568c20903032047i12a3706eja1cbb6372137ecd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3afd8deb0903040810h2ee06690ha3b8254a40bc4bf2@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Todd Walton wrote: > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Tim Wilson > wrote: > > Sorry to say it, but it could be Yahoo. I've had problems with Yahoo > > delaying e-mails for hours or even days or even losing them entirely. I > > have a Yahoo account, but I much prefer my GMail account. If you don't > have > > one and would like one, e-mail me off-list and I'll send you an invite (I > > think you still need to be invited). > > Nope. One can sign up on one's own these days. > > Also, I second the Yahoo diagnosis, based on personal experience. > > -todd > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > Of course you realize he's never going to get this email (or Tim's), so he's still in the dark about Yahoo... :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090304/d267772b/attachment.htm From tdwalton at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 12:53:42 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Wed Mar 4 12:54:16 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Question about mail list In-Reply-To: <200903041009.15806.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <323540.35836.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200903041009.15806.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > On 2009-03-03 at 22:24:32, Tom Sellers wrote: >>Is this a common occurrance on such a mailing list? ?Is there a reason >>why I would have mail that shows up much later than earlier messages >>that have already been read but with older timestamps? > > In my experience, that's normal for all mailing lists, regardless of who > hosts your e-mail account. It is common for replies to arrive before > the original message. The ghost in the machine top-posts. Damn him. -todd From adk at 52761.com Wed Mar 4 14:24:48 2009 From: adk at 52761.com (Allen Kiddoo) Date: Wed Mar 4 14:25:15 2009 Subject: [Cialug] super cheap netbook In-Reply-To: <7aa1cdb20903040717r4c3a1036j651f083aea5e66d7@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aa1cdb20903040717r4c3a1036j651f083aea5e66d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <678823f00903041224u74509df0ga9b3ad34c9808a40@mail.gmail.com> I have one. Keyboard is not for a touch typist. Battery lasts only about 2 hours. That's a whole lot less than I paid for mine last June. Currently running Fedora 10- everything works perfect. Allen Kiddoo On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Tim Champion wrote: > Ok, this is a little off subject, but so was the car thread, so *shrug* > > I've been paying close attention to the netbook scene, and I got a promo > email from mwave today with a super-cheap refurb netbook > Eee PC 900A 8.9 inch netbook w/ Linux for $180 > http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SkuSearch_v2.asp?SCriteria=ba25872 > > I've seen this price for the 7 inch model, but never for the 9 inch model. > Thought somebody might be interested. > > Tim Champion > timchampion@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Wed Mar 4 14:54:37 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Wed Mar 4 14:55:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903031355.17932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <667aab920903031125wa857d9asa74b64187a8a6713@mail.gmail.com> <200903031355.17932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <200903041454.37602.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-03 at 13:55:17, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: >On 2009-03-03 at 13:25:56, Aaron Porter wrote: >>When running memtest on "server grade" hardware it's important to >>disable ECC in the system BIOS. I've had vendors swear up and down >>that there are no memory issues as they were testing the error >>correction and not the memory itself. > >Thanks for the hint. > >My desktop machine at home is "server grade" hardware, to the limit of >what budget i was able to rationalize at the time. It does have ECC >RAM. I'll be sure to disable the ECC when running memtest86. I'm going to call this thread's issue most likely resolved. Today i installed the memtest86 Debian package (which then shows up in the grub menu on boot). I rebooted and went into the BIOS. After disabling ECC, something interesting happened. The BIOS made a large number of beeps on boot and printed a message about memory failure. Interesting. I tried rebooting, same behavior. The memory problems didn't prevent the machine from booting, however, and it was still able to boot up to a Linux desktop. But, recalling that some of the mcelog errors mentioned "DIMM3", i figured i'd remove 2 of the 4 DIMMs (i don't know what "3" means since i don't know if mcelog counts from 0 or from 1, but since DIMMs should be installed in pairs in this machine, it doesn't matter anyway). Upon removing the 2 higher DIMMs, the machine started working perfectly, albeit with 1/2 the RAM it had before. No BIOS beeps and complaints about bad memory. It is running now and presumably will not have more problems. After checking how cheap that RAM has become (even the large 2 GB DIMMs that my machine has), i just ordered a couple replacements. Probably only one of the 2 DIMMs i pulled is bad, but RAM is so cheap that it isn't worth my time trying to determine which is which. My previous statement about memtest86 just flat out not working still stands, however. Both before and after removing the bad RAM, when i select memtest86 in grub, the screen goes black and after less than a second reboots. So, memtest86 is functionally similar to the computer's reset button. I was expecting a memory test, not another way to kick the machine. I might try booting memtest86 from a CD and see if that works any better, but since i seem to have discovered the memory problems without it, i probably won't bother. For now i'm running with ECC turned off, which i think should cause a crash if there are also problems with the lower pair of DIMMs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From dave at dchamp.net Wed Mar 4 15:44:01 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Wed Mar 4 15:43:57 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903041454.37602.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <667aab920903031125wa857d9asa74b64187a8a6713@mail.gmail.com> <200903031355.17932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903041454.37602.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <49AEF621.3070306@dchamp.net> Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > My previous statement about memtest86 just flat out not working still > stands, however. Both before and after removing the bad RAM, when i > select memtest86 in grub, the screen goes black and after less than a > second reboots. So, memtest86 is functionally similar to the computer's > reset button. I was expecting a memory test, not another way to kick > the machine. I might try booting memtest86 from a CD and see if that > works any better, but since i seem to have discovered the memory > problems without it, i probably won't bother. For now i'm running with > ECC turned off, which i think should cause a crash if there are also > problems with the lower pair of DIMMs. > I dont' think it's fair to say memtest86 doesn't work... I think maybe the version packaged with debian may have a bug or something... but some of us have used it with the proper results. It's been around for quite a while, I remember using it probably 6 or 7 years ago to diagnose some janky RAM. Many distros have memtest86 on their CD's that you can run in live or rescue mode, I'd suggest trying that - it's easier anyway, and doesn't require messing with your bootloader. -dc From atporter at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 13:41:50 2009 From: atporter at gmail.com (Aaron Porter) Date: Thu Mar 5 13:42:15 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903041454.37602.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <667aab920903031125wa857d9asa74b64187a8a6713@mail.gmail.com> <200903031355.17932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903041454.37602.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <667aab920903051141i32f62fadp2fab1b7a4eca50a6@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > My previous statement about memtest86 just flat out not working still > stands, however. Both before and after removing the bad RAM, when i > select memtest86 in grub, the screen goes black and after less than a > second reboots. So, memtest86 is functionally similar to the computer's > reset button. One of the many joys of a "self hosted" sanity check. Remember -- memtest is just another set of bits running on the same suspect hardware and subject to most of the same failure cases, no matter how carefully it tries to avoid and detect them. From doncady at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 16:27:35 2009 From: doncady at gmail.com (Don Cady) Date: Thu Mar 5 16:28:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903032043k6b899e5awc526cc346c0bbbc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090304035915.14684ED64@www.cialug.org> <49AE000A.5020505@eric.nu> <8b490d600903032043k6b899e5awc526cc346c0bbbc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Nathan Stien wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Eric Junker wrote: >> >> Dan Hockey wrote: >>> >>> Has anyone done an x11 forwarding to windows? >> >> I've used Xming X server on Windows >> http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ > > Seconded.? Works very well for me. Third-ed. Dan, are you editing the daemon config file? On mine, the plain config file is for the client, which would be Putty in this case. Don From kristau at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 16:33:49 2009 From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau) Date: Thu Mar 5 16:34:14 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <667aab920903051141i32f62fadp2fab1b7a4eca50a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <667aab920903031125wa857d9asa74b64187a8a6713@mail.gmail.com> <200903031355.17932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903041454.37602.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <667aab920903051141i32f62fadp2fab1b7a4eca50a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3effba680903051433p727893c2h8df96f94dc188162@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Aaron Porter wrote: > One of the many joys of a "self hosted" sanity check. Remember -- > memtest is just another set of bits running on the same suspect > hardware and subject to most of the same failure cases, no matter how > carefully it tries to avoid and detect them. What he said. memtest uses a small amount of RAM to load itself, then tests the rest. It is entirely possible that some part of the first X kb of RAM is bad and that is why memtest won't load. . . -- Tired programmer Coding late into the night The core dump follows From icepuck2k at mchsi.com Thu Mar 5 22:24:55 2009 From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey) Date: Thu Mar 5 22:25:24 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SSH In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090306042501.BEB1AF2A7@www.cialug.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On > Behalf Of Don Cady > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:28 PM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [Cialug] SSH > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Nathan Stien wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Eric Junker wrote: > >> > >> Dan Hockey wrote: > >>> > >>> Has anyone done an x11 forwarding to windows? > >> > >> I've used Xming X server on Windows > >> http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ > > > > Seconded.? Works very well for me. > > Third-ed. Dan, are you editing the daemon config file? On mine, the > plain config file is for the client, which would be Putty in this > case. > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug I managed to install Xming and their version of PuTTy. It runs but I still can't get it to connect to my server. It gives lots of errors and I'm too tired to do any more to night. -dh From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Mon Mar 9 09:28:02 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Mon Mar 9 09:28:47 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Crashing with errors in mcelog In-Reply-To: <200903041454.37602.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903011319.03164.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903031355.17932.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <200903041454.37602.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <200903090928.02480.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-04 at 14:54:37, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: >I'm going to call this thread's issue most likely resolved. Final followup: last Wednesday i pulled 2 DIMMs from the machine. I just checked the mcelog, and there have been no new entries since. The machine has also been running stable, even though ECC is turned off in the BIOS. I have some replacement RAM now; i'll install that soon. I think i'll run with ECC off for a few days just to test the new RAM, then turn ECC back on. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Mon Mar 9 09:45:22 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Mon Mar 9 09:46:05 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry Message-ID: <200903090945.22730.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> This was posted on the Tokyo LUG. http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html A select quote: "We schedule a technician visit for six months in the future with every home visit. Both they and we know their registries and computers will be messed up again by then." -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From newz at bearfruit.org Mon Mar 9 09:55:32 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Mon Mar 9 09:56:12 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry In-Reply-To: <200903090945.22730.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <200903090945.22730.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > This was posted on the Tokyo LUG. > > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html > > A select quote: > ?"We schedule a technician visit for six months in the > ?future with every home visit. Both they and we know > ?their registries and computers will be messed up again > ?by then." "I'm not going to lie to you but I'm going to hint at (but not tell you) details that lead you to believe something that isn't true." (like I knocked the guy down) If you saw the harry potter movies or read the books, reminds me of that professor in the 2nd movie who was the famous author. Kind of remarkable that one person could have so many amazing encounters. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From ewenix at raccoon.com Mon Mar 9 13:08:02 2009 From: ewenix at raccoon.com (ewenix@raccoon.com) Date: Mon Mar 9 13:08:52 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry In-Reply-To: References: <200903090945.22730.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <26834.66.185.12.50.1236622082.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com> I had the same thought, which led me to wonder how much of the story is true. Also this sentence annoyed me: "Hey...just thinking allowed." -Jeff > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley > wrote: >> This was posted on the Tokyo LUG. >> >> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html >> >> A select quote: >> ?"We schedule a technician visit for six months in the >> ?future with every home visit. Both they and we know >> ?their registries and computers will be messed up again >> ?by then." > > "I'm not going to lie to you but I'm going to hint at (but not tell > you) details that lead you to believe something that isn't true." > (like I knocked the guy down) > > If you saw the harry potter movies or read the books, reminds me of > that professor in the 2nd movie who was the famous author. Kind of > remarkable that one person could have so many amazing encounters. > > -- > Matthew Nuzum > newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From thiessenstuart at aol.com Mon Mar 9 13:18:34 2009 From: thiessenstuart at aol.com (Stuart Thiessen) Date: Mon Mar 9 13:20:04 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry In-Reply-To: <26834.66.185.12.50.1236622082.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com> References: <200903090945.22730.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <26834.66.185.12.50.1236622082.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com> Message-ID: <0DDA79A0-D0DE-427A-BFC8-EE822713B106@aol.com> Apparently, "thinking allowed" is supposed to stand for "thinking is allowed" and "thinking aloud". :) Stuart On Mar 9, 2009, at 13:08 , ewenix@raccoon.com wrote: > I had the same thought, which led me to > wonder how much of the story is true. > > Also this sentence annoyed me: "Hey...just thinking allowed." > > -Jeff > > > >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley >> wrote: >>> This was posted on the Tokyo LUG. >>> >>> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html >>> >>> A select quote: >>> "We schedule a technician visit for six months in the >>> future with every home visit. Both they and we know >>> their registries and computers will be messed up again >>> by then." >> >> "I'm not going to lie to you but I'm going to hint at (but not tell >> you) details that lead you to believe something that isn't true." >> (like I knocked the guy down) >> >> If you saw the harry potter movies or read the books, reminds me of >> that professor in the 2nd movie who was the famous author. Kind of >> remarkable that one person could have so many amazing encounters. >> >> -- >> Matthew Nuzum >> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter >> _______________________________________________ >> Cialug mailing list >> Cialug@cialug.org >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From ewenix at raccoon.com Mon Mar 9 16:04:03 2009 From: ewenix at raccoon.com (ewenix@raccoon.com) Date: Mon Mar 9 16:04:43 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry In-Reply-To: <0DDA79A0-D0DE-427A-BFC8-EE822713B106@aol.com> References: <200903090945.22730.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <26834.66.185.12.50.1236622082.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com> <0DDA79A0-D0DE-427A-BFC8-EE822713B106@aol.com> Message-ID: <14741.66.185.12.50.1236632643.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com> Yeah. I think you're right. We all make mistakes, but that one struck me as more than a simple typo. I know someone who consistently pronounces the word moot, as mute. It makes me cringe each time for some reason. -Jeff > Apparently, "thinking allowed" is supposed to stand for "thinking is > allowed" and "thinking aloud". :) > > Stuart > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 13:08 , ewenix@raccoon.com wrote: > >> I had the same thought, which led me to >> wonder how much of the story is true. >> >> Also this sentence annoyed me: "Hey...just thinking allowed." >> >> -Jeff >> >> >> >>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley >>> wrote: >>>> This was posted on the Tokyo LUG. >>>> >>>> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html >>>> >>>> A select quote: >>>> "We schedule a technician visit for six months in the >>>> future with every home visit. Both they and we know >>>> their registries and computers will be messed up again >>>> by then." >>> >>> "I'm not going to lie to you but I'm going to hint at (but not tell >>> you) details that lead you to believe something that isn't true." >>> (like I knocked the guy down) >>> >>> If you saw the harry potter movies or read the books, reminds me of >>> that professor in the 2nd movie who was the famous author. Kind of >>> remarkable that one person could have so many amazing encounters. >>> >>> -- >>> Matthew Nuzum >>> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cialug mailing list >>> Cialug@cialug.org >>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >>> >>> -- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and >>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >>> believed to be clean. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cialug mailing list >> Cialug@cialug.org >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 08:53:52 2009 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue Mar 10 09:03:08 2009 Subject: [Cialug] AAFUGIT Message-ID: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) of the AAFUGIT group? Additionally, is this group still active at all? From barry at vonahsen.com Tue Mar 10 09:08:13 2009 From: barry at vonahsen.com (Barry Von Ahsen) Date: Tue Mar 10 09:08:39 2009 Subject: [Cialug] AAFUGIT In-Reply-To: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> References: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B6744D.9050603@vonahsen.com> Jeff Chapin wrote: > Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) > of the AAFUGIT group? > > Additionally, is this group still active at all? hardly - I think John Rose and I are about the last two subscribers. I've got the domain registration, and John has the webserver (or can get to it) -barry From tdwalton at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 09:09:52 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Tue Mar 10 09:10:47 2009 Subject: [Cialug] AAFUGIT In-Reply-To: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> References: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) > of the AAFUGIT group? > > Additionally, is this group still active at all? According to Zachary Kotlarek the group has become AmesFUG. -todd From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 09:05:11 2009 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue Mar 10 09:13:50 2009 Subject: [Cialug] AAFUGIT In-Reply-To: <49B6744D.9050603@vonahsen.com> References: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> <49B6744D.9050603@vonahsen.com> Message-ID: <49B67397.7070903@gmail.com> It appears that you have at least 2 issues. One is that the mail server is refusing to accept mail from just about any domain -- gmail, hotmal, iastate, and uni.edu all result in the following error: #### Original message (id 82860345) received at Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:44:28 -0500 from chapinjeff@gmail.com Message was not delivered to the following addresses. Please look at the attachment for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Reporting-MTA: dns; gossamer.collab.uni.edu Received-From-MTA: dns; calvin.its.uni.edu Arrival-Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:44:28 -0500 Final-Recipient: rfc822; aafugit-request@aafugit.org Action: failed Status: 5.5.3 Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:44:55 -0500 Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) Remote-MTA: dns; mx1.aafugit.org #### Additionally, the website appears to have been hacked: I recently visited the site www.aafugit.org, and noticed that when disabling scripts, various, inappropriate links appear on the left-hand navigation menu. Enabling scripts hides these links. Just thought I would let someone know. hopefully things can get cleaned up ;-) Jeff Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > Jeff Chapin wrote: >> Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) >> of the AAFUGIT group? >> >> Additionally, is this group still active at all? > > hardly - I think John Rose and I are about the last two subscribers. > I've got the domain registration, and John has the webserver (or can > get to it) > > -barry > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From barry at vonahsen.com Tue Mar 10 09:15:14 2009 From: barry at vonahsen.com (Barry Von Ahsen) Date: Tue Mar 10 09:15:40 2009 Subject: [Cialug] AAFUGIT In-Reply-To: References: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B675F2.2080906@vonahsen.com> Todd Walton wrote: > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) >> of the AAFUGIT group? >> >> Additionally, is this group still active at all? > > According to Zachary Kotlarek the group has become AmesFUG. > good catch - I think in the interest of resume items, they rebranded as AmesFUG 3-4 years ago and let the domain lapse. aafugit.org is now a front-end for porn-spam (don't click any of the links, but it's too late, it seems) replace aafugit with amesfug for my previous comments -barry From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 09:12:47 2009 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue Mar 10 09:21:17 2009 Subject: [Cialug] AAFUGIT In-Reply-To: <49B675F2.2080906@vonahsen.com> References: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> <49B675F2.2080906@vonahsen.com> Message-ID: <49B6755F.2040809@gmail.com> If that is the case, that is one of the most impressive front-end. It retains much of the original content, and looks fine to the plain eye -- it was only by chance I caught that. Jeff Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > Todd Walton wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Jeff Chapin >> wrote: >>> Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) >>> of the AAFUGIT group? >>> >>> Additionally, is this group still active at all? >> >> According to Zachary Kotlarek the group has become AmesFUG. >> > > good catch - I think in the interest of resume items, they rebranded > as AmesFUG 3-4 years ago and let the domain lapse. aafugit.org is now > a front-end for porn-spam (don't click any of the links, but it's too > late, it seems) > > replace aafugit with amesfug for my previous comments > > > -barry > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From barry at vonahsen.com Tue Mar 10 09:21:52 2009 From: barry at vonahsen.com (Barry Von Ahsen) Date: Tue Mar 10 09:22:18 2009 Subject: [Cialug] AAFUGIT In-Reply-To: <49B675F2.2080906@vonahsen.com> References: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> <49B675F2.2080906@vonahsen.com> Message-ID: <49B67780.6030907@vonahsen.com> Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > Todd Walton wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Jeff Chapin >> wrote: >>> Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) >>> of the AAFUGIT group? >>> >>> Additionally, is this group still active at all? >> >> According to Zachary Kotlarek the group has become AmesFUG. >> > > good catch - I think in the interest of resume items, they rebranded as > AmesFUG 3-4 years ago and let the domain lapse. aafugit.org is now a > front-end for porn-spam (don't click any of the links, but it's too > late, it seems) > > replace aafugit with amesfug for my previous comments > and it appears the amesfug.org website isn't up (for me, at least). Jeff, you're the first to notice since at least July, so it's probably safe to call it an ex-lug (er, fug) :( -barry From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 10 09:41:21 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 10 09:41:52 2009 Subject: [Cialug] AAFUGIT In-Reply-To: <49B67780.6030907@vonahsen.com> References: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> <49B675F2.2080906@vonahsen.com> <49B67780.6030907@vonahsen.com> Message-ID: <49B67C11.7090904@dchamp.net> Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > Barry Von Ahsen wrote: >> Todd Walton wrote: >>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Jeff Chapin >>> wrote: >>>> Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) >>>> of the AAFUGIT group? >>>> >>>> Additionally, is this group still active at all? >>> >>> According to Zachary Kotlarek the group has become AmesFUG. >>> >> >> good catch - I think in the interest of resume items, they rebranded >> as AmesFUG 3-4 years ago and let the domain lapse. aafugit.org is >> now a front-end for porn-spam (don't click any of the links, but it's >> too late, it seems) >> >> replace aafugit with amesfug for my previous comments >> > > and it appears the amesfug.org website isn't up (for me, at least). > Jeff, you're the first to notice since at least July, so it's probably > safe to call it an ex-lug (er, fug) :( > > > -barry Looks like the last email I got from their mailing list was on 5/15/2008. -dc From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 10 10:23:43 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 10 10:24:09 2009 Subject: [Cialug] UEX - UltraEdit for Linux / Mac Message-ID: <49B685FF.6060104@dchamp.net> [warning: somewhat advertise-y] I use UltraEdit on Windows as my main programming editor at work. Just got an announcement that they're going to be releasing UEX - UltraEdit for Linux (and Mac) soon. http://www.ultraedit.com/products/uex.html I usually use Quanta or Kate for PHP editing in Linux. Quanta gives you most of the features that UltraEdit has, but UE has some really nice features that I miss. -dc From newz at bearfruit.org Tue Mar 10 10:37:18 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Tue Mar 10 10:38:14 2009 Subject: [Cialug] UEX - UltraEdit for Linux / Mac In-Reply-To: <49B685FF.6060104@dchamp.net> References: <49B685FF.6060104@dchamp.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:23 AM, David Champion wrote: > [warning: somewhat advertise-y] > I use UltraEdit on Windows as my main programming editor at work. Just got > an announcement that they're going to be releasing UEX - UltraEdit for Linux > (and Mac) soon. > > http://www.ultraedit.com/products/uex.html > That's awesome. I love when windows-only products are ported to new operating systems. From the screenshot it looks like a native app too. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From newz at bearfruit.org Tue Mar 10 10:38:23 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Tue Mar 10 10:39:18 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Dvorak loves Linux Message-ID: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2342703,00.asp That's quite an interesting endorsement there. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From djweis at internetsolver.com Tue Mar 10 10:54:31 2009 From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis) Date: Tue Mar 10 10:55:26 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Centos on Dell 2950 In-Reply-To: <49AC4992.7080501@dchamp.net> References: <49AC1F6B.2060106@internetsolver.com> <5DEF488E-C4AD-4CF2-86F0-BDB2276BBEFE@tcpconsulting.com> <49AC2B03.10009@internetsolver.com> <44A87DBC-1B02-4917-B669-B9BF80BE7B28@tcpconsulting.com> <49AC2CA4.4020008@internetsolver.com> <49AC4992.7080501@dchamp.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, David Champion wrote: > Dave Weis wrote: >> Tom Pohl wrote: >>> So are you running the 32bit centos or 64 bit? >>> If you're running the 32bit, I've seen random crashes before. >> Probably 32 bit. It's on the way at a bit over a megabyte/second and will >> still take an hour. > I haven't seen any issues with this...I'm running 32 bit Linux kernels on a > couple of 64 bit processors, including an Intel core2duo (laptop) and an AMD > X2. But I'm also running Mandriva on those, so the kernel is compiled with a > lot of different options than CentOS... which is probably using the processor > = fossilized flag. But I get my own unique headaches... I have the 64 bit version on there now and it's sat for a couple days without panicing which is an improvement! I am going to pull over java, resin, and postgres and beat on it a bit at the office to see what it does for speed :-) -- Dave Weis djweis@internetsolver.com http://www.internetsolver.com/ From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 10 10:58:38 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 10 10:59:04 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Dvorak loves Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B68E2E.5020906@dchamp.net> Matthew Nuzum wrote: > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2342703,00.asp > > That's quite an interesting endorsement there. > > Oh crap. If Dvorak likes Linux, I'm going to have to switch to something else. At least he's an Ubuntu luser, and not running Mandriva. :p -dc From tdwalton at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 14:12:42 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Tue Mar 10 14:13:40 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down Message-ID: I have had the distinct experience of web surfing slowing down over the past year or two. I've had the same computer for the past two years and my Internet service provider has not changed. But more consistently, as time goes on, it's slow to scroll web pages and my favorite flash game will get clunky slow as something else is loading. I believe it has something to do with the fact that *everything* these days is Flash that, Ajax this. -todd From newz at bearfruit.org Tue Mar 10 14:26:21 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Tue Mar 10 14:27:18 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Todd Walton wrote: > I have had the distinct experience of web surfing slowing down over > the past year or two. ?I've had the same computer for the past two > years and my Internet service provider has not changed. ?But more > consistently, as time goes on, it's slow to scroll web pages and my > favorite flash game will get clunky slow as something else is loading. > > I believe it has something to do with the fact that *everything* these > days is Flash that, Ajax this. http://www.bearfruit.org/blog/2007/10/26/the-webpage-that-ate-my-battery That said, browsers are also running javascript faster and, bucking the trend, Firefox 3 uses less resources than Firefox 2. It's possible things have changed on your computer to cause the problem. For example a video card driver may need an update. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Tue Mar 10 14:40:42 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Tue Mar 10 14:42:21 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well if you have had the unfortunate experience of browsing over dial-up lately you would know with great certainty that there is far too much Javascript, Flash and Ajax everywhere. -Nate > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Todd Walton > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:13 PM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down > > I have had the distinct experience of web surfing slowing down over > the past year or two. I've had the same computer for the past two > years and my Internet service provider has not changed. But more > consistently, as time goes on, it's slow to scroll web pages and my > favorite flash game will get clunky slow as something else is loading. > > I believe it has something to do with the fact that *everything* these > days is Flash that, Ajax this. > > -todd > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 10 14:56:24 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 10 14:56:53 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B6C5E8.3050804@dchamp.net> Matthew Nuzum wrote: > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Todd Walton wrote: > >> I have had the distinct experience of web surfing slowing down over >> the past year or two. I've had the same computer for the past two >> years and my Internet service provider has not changed. But more >> consistently, as time goes on, it's slow to scroll web pages and my >> favorite flash game will get clunky slow as something else is loading. >> >> I believe it has something to do with the fact that *everything* these >> days is Flash that, Ajax this. >> > > http://www.bearfruit.org/blog/2007/10/26/the-webpage-that-ate-my-battery > > That said, browsers are also running javascript faster and, bucking > the trend, Firefox 3 uses less resources than Firefox 2. It's possible > things have changed on your computer to cause the problem. For example > a video card driver may need an update. > > I've noticed that lately some of the blogs that I read like boingboing.net, autoblog, engadget... have gotten so jazzed up that if you have more than 3 or 4 of those types of pages open in tabs, your browser can become just about unresponsive. Here's a roundup of the current and upcoming releases of all the major browsers, showing the performance, ACID test results etc: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/browser_brouhaha_your_maximum_guide_browsers_today_and_tomorrow?page=0%2C0 Looks like FF 3.1, and the new Opera are both pretty nice. I personally haven't used Opera much - I used it way back when it first came out, and stopped shortly after they came out with the version with the imbedded banner ads. -dc From linux-list at upeke.com Tue Mar 10 22:55:28 2009 From: linux-list at upeke.com (Andrew Denner) Date: Tue Mar 10 22:56:30 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> This is the from the golden hammer anti-pattern... when you have it everything is a nail. That being said, there are some really cool java script toolkits that make java script really easy (like YUI and Mootools). I admit I am guilty of using it on several websites because it was "cool". As for Gmail, there is no reason that you need gmail open 24-7, just use IMAP and a real client same for the IM. I find that if I leave gmail up for more then a couple of days I will get the "the script on the page has stopped responding" errors. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Todd Walton wrote: > I have had the distinct experience of web surfing slowing down over > the past year or two. I've had the same computer for the past two > years and my Internet service provider has not changed. But more > consistently, as time goes on, it's slow to scroll web pages and my > favorite flash game will get clunky slow as something else is loading. > > I believe it has something to do with the fact that *everything* these > days is Flash that, Ajax this. > > -todd > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090310/27d19af6/attachment.htm From cmlburnett at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 08:32:39 2009 From: cmlburnett at gmail.com (Colin Burnett) Date: Wed Mar 11 08:40:27 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Andrew Denner wrote: > > As for Gmail, there is no reason that you need gmail open 24-7, just use > IMAP and a real client same for the IM.? I find that if I leave gmail up for > more then a couple of days I will get the "the script on the page has > stopped responding" errors. For me gmail is about the interface, which I have yet to see matched in a desktop client. Colin From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Wed Mar 11 08:49:14 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Wed Mar 11 08:50:18 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903110849.15053.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> I use the Gmail web client and find i can keep it open for more than a week. With Firefox 2, much more than a week though and Firefox' memory usage was well over 1 GB and the browser would be very sluggish. Restarting the browser would restore it to normal. Usually i'd restart FF 2 every 3-4 days. With Firefox 3 i can usually go 1-2 weeks between browser restarts. I do notice, however, that with Gmail open i get a "xulrunner-bin" process running constantly and using whatever free CPU is available. I have no idea what that process is doing. If i close the Gmail tab the process continues running but stops using an easily measurable amount of CPU. I wonder if Google has figured out a javascript implementation of SETI@home or Folding@home or some other *@home project and is running it whenever someone uses Gmail. On 2009-03-10 at 22:55:28, Andrew Denner wrote: >As for Gmail, there is no reason that you need gmail open 24-7, just > use IMAP and a real client same for the IM. I find that if I leave > gmail up for more then a couple of days I will get the "the script on > the page has stopped responding" errors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From cmlburnett at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 08:55:10 2009 From: cmlburnett at gmail.com (Colin Burnett) Date: Wed Mar 11 08:56:12 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <200903110849.15053.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> <200903110849.15053.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > > I do notice, however, that with Gmail open i get a "xulrunner-bin" > process running constantly and using whatever free CPU is available. XUL is the mozilla UI descriptor language in XML. Last I knew you couldn't invoke XUL from a web page so it's likely FF that has a "problem". Poking around I see xulrunner-bin is a simple script that invokes mozilla-launcher and I see no reason why that should be maxing your proc out. Colin From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Wed Mar 11 08:57:12 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Wed Mar 11 08:58:13 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-11 at 08:32:39, Colin Burnett wrote: >For me gmail is about the interface, which I have yet to see matched >in a desktop client. For me it is tagging messages as opposed to filing them in folders. Sure, the way tags are implemented emulates folders (albeit without nesting, though there are of course Firefox extensions to fix that lack, should you perceive it as such). But i like being able to put multiple tags on messages. Are there any desktop clients that use a tagging model instead of a pure folder model? I don't know enough about the IMAP protocol to know if a tagging model is even possible with a vanilla mail server, unless the client kept its own local database with all the tagging information--which would obliterate the main advantage to IMAP of being able to access the same mail in the same way from multiple clients. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From newz at bearfruit.org Wed Mar 11 09:00:04 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Wed Mar 11 09:01:05 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <200903110849.15053.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> <200903110849.15053.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > I do notice, however, that with Gmail open i get a "xulrunner-bin" > process running constantly and using whatever free CPU is available. I > have no idea what that process is doing. If i close the Gmail tab the > process continues running but stops using an easily measurable amount > of CPU. I wonder if Google has figured out a javascript implementation > of SETI@home or Folding@home or some other *@home project and is > running it whenever someone uses Gmail. You probably have gears installed. The advice about closing gmail is good - arguably for system perforrnance, but definitely for your productivity. Close the email program, close twitter, set IM/IRC to away, put the phone on DND and focus. Works great for me. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From newz at bearfruit.org Wed Mar 11 09:06:19 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Wed Mar 11 09:07:20 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > On 2009-03-11 at 08:32:39, Colin Burnett wrote: >>For me gmail is about the interface, which I have yet to see matched >>in a desktop client. > > For me it is tagging messages as opposed to filing them in folders. > Sure, the way tags are implemented emulates folders (albeit without > nesting, though there are of course Firefox extensions to fix that > lack, should you perceive it as such). But i like being able to put > multiple tags on messages. Are there any desktop clients that use a > tagging model instead of a pure folder model? The beta version of thunderbird is a lot more gmail like. I've not used it, just reading the release notes. Regarding nesting tags, you can install greacemonkey in firefox and install the "Folders4Gmail" user script and it lets you nest tags. You name your tags something like this: bugs/personal bugs/website lists/cialug lists/ubuntu lists/html This works fine with or without the script but with the script enabled they will appear collapsed so that they take up less vertical space. The above lists would show up as two labels that are expandable, bugs and lists. I have so many tags that this helps me keep track of what's going on. Folders4Gmail is part of better gmail 2 but I found that plugin (which is just a group of greacemonkey scripts) consistently raises firefox's cpu usage. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From zach at kotlarek.com Wed Mar 11 09:44:51 2009 From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek) Date: Wed Mar 11 09:45:57 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Mar 11, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > For me it is tagging messages as opposed to filing them in folders. > Sure, the way tags are implemented emulates folders (albeit without > nesting, though there are of course Firefox extensions to fix that > lack, should you perceive it as such). But i like being able to put > multiple tags on messages. Are there any desktop clients that use a > tagging model instead of a pure folder model? I don't understand what the difference is, other than you can do a reverse lookup to see all the folders/tags related a message without running a search. With IMAP I can put the same message into all sorts of folders with an client, and a well-implemented IMAP server will even hard-link those messages for me, to avoid making copies (not that it matters much, as IMAP messages are immutable). I've only ever played with gmail for a little bit, bit it looks just like folders to me. What am I missing? Zach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/4730409b/smime.bin From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Wed Mar 11 09:56:13 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Wed Mar 11 09:57:18 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: <200903110849.15053.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <200903110956.13344.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-11 at 09:00:04, Matthew Nuzum wrote: >On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley > wrote: >> I do notice, however, that with Gmail open i get a "xulrunner-bin" >> process running constantly and using whatever free CPU is available. > >You probably have gears installed. What is gears? Do you mean this? http://gears.google.com/ I do not have that installed. When i visit the page it says my browser isn't even supported. Which is strange since right under that it lists the requirements as Linux, Firefox 1.5+, 32-bit OS. Which is exactly what this PC has. Maybe because Debian rebranded Firefox as "Iceweasel"; that sometimes causes problems with websites identifying the browser correctly. >The advice about closing gmail is good - arguably for system >perforrnance, but definitely for your productivity. Close the email >program, close twitter, set IM/IRC to away, put the phone on DND and >focus. Works great for me. I don't use G-mail very often on my work PC and don't knowingly have any IM programs installed (i'm sure there are several on the machine that were pulled in as dependencies, but i didn't consciously choose to install them and don't use them). At home i just leave Gmail and IM open constantly though. But my computer usage is rather different at home and at work. At home, mostly casual web browsing, e-mail, chatting with friends, and even the occasional game. At work i try to avoid the fluff, with the exception of mailing lists. >Regarding nesting tags, you can install greacemonkey in firefox and >install the "Folders4Gmail" user script and it lets you nest tags. You >name your tags something like this: Yep, that's what i use to get folders. I have it installed in most of my Firefox installs. I wonder if Folders4Gmail is what pegs the CPU? I've never cared enough to try disabling it to see if there is a difference. Someday i'll dig into it, but i don't actually notice the load from xulrunner except in that it shows up in top. Sometimes i renice the process to +19 and that makes it use slightly less CPU, but doesn't change how responsive Firefox is. I've also tried killing xulrunner-bin but that causes Firefox to die hard. But basically the computers i use are fast enough that whatever xulrunner-bin is doing doesn't seem to affect my experience as a user. Next time i go on a tuning spree and try to make the computer's operation more closely approximate what i expect of it, i'll dig into the xulrunner issue some more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From tim_linux at wilson-home.com Wed Mar 11 10:34:09 2009 From: tim_linux at wilson-home.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Wed Mar 11 10:35:18 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <5a9568c20903110834h555be775s7b6688537fd335e9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Zachary Kotlarek wrote: > > On Mar 11, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > > For me it is tagging messages as opposed to filing them in folders. >> Sure, the way tags are implemented emulates folders (albeit without >> nesting, though there are of course Firefox extensions to fix that >> lack, should you perceive it as such). But i like being able to put >> multiple tags on messages. Are there any desktop clients that use a >> tagging model instead of a pure folder model? >> > > > I don't understand what the difference is, other than you can do a reverse > lookup to see all the folders/tags related a message without running a > search. With IMAP I can put the same message into all sorts of folders with > an client, and a well-implemented IMAP server will even hard-link those > messages for me, to avoid making copies (not that it matters much, as IMAP > messages are immutable). It's all about flexibility. With the typical folder system, if you put an e-mail in the folder, that's the only place it appears. With labels, if you don't want to move it out of your inbox you don't have to. Plus you can have the same e-mail labeled multiple times. For example, I have a Shopping label for places like Newegg, Buy.com, etc. I also have a label for each place. So if I'm looking for something from Newegg, I can just click that label. However, if I'm looking for something and don't remember where I saw it, I can go to Shopping and search there. A lot nicer than searching through lots of other e-mails that don't have anything to do with shopping. Sure, you might be able to get some of this functionality from an app, but from a webmail provider? I don't have an e-mail client installed anymore. I only use webmail. No matter where I log into the site from, there's my e-mail. > > > I've only ever played with gmail for a little bit, bit it looks just like > folders to me. What am I missing? > > Zach > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > -- Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/0de5a5cb/attachment.htm From zach at kotlarek.com Wed Mar 11 10:51:41 2009 From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek) Date: Wed Mar 11 10:52:46 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <5a9568c20903110834h555be775s7b6688537fd335e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <5a9568c20903110834h555be775s7b6688537fd335e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mar 11, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Tim Wilson wrote: > It's all about flexibility. With the typical folder system, if you > put an e-mail in the folder, that's the only place it appears. With > labels, if you don't want to move it out of your inbox you don't > have to. Plus you can have the same e-mail labeled multiple times. > For example, I have a Shopping label for places like Newegg, > Buy.com, etc. I also have a label for each place. I'd just hold down the option/ctrl key while dragging the message to a new folder to make a copy. > So if I'm looking for something from Newegg, I can just click that > label. I'd select the NewEgg folder, then type in the search bar. > However, if I'm looking for something and don't remember where I saw > it, I can go to Shopping and search there. I'd select all folders inside the Shopping folder, then type in the search bar. With the added benefit of never needing to label for both "NewEgg" and "Shopping" in the first place. > Sure, you might be able to get some of this functionality from an > app, but from a webmail provider? That one you've got me on. Gmail is by far one of the best webmail clients available. Though Horde's DIMP (dynamic IMP) is pretty good too -- it's almost like a local mail client. ;-) But I'm not really excited about *any* email client, web-based or otherwise. I was just trying to figure out why labels were better than folders; I think the answer is "some clients make it easier to use labels than make copies" -- is there more to it than that? Zach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/7716014a/smime-0001.bin From tim_linux at wilson-home.com Wed Mar 11 11:07:32 2009 From: tim_linux at wilson-home.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Wed Mar 11 11:08:35 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <5a9568c20903110834h555be775s7b6688537fd335e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5a9568c20903110907s41bde5eci2a9243d050af76e0@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Zachary Kotlarek wrote: > > On Mar 11, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Tim Wilson wrote: > > It's all about flexibility. With the typical folder system, if you put an >> e-mail in the folder, that's the only place it appears. With labels, if you >> don't want to move it out of your inbox you don't have to. Plus you can >> have the same e-mail labeled multiple times. For example, I have a Shopping >> label for places like Newegg, Buy.com, etc. I also have a label for each >> place. >> > > > I'd just hold down the option/ctrl key while dragging the message to a new > folder to make a copy. Yeah, but now you have that same e-mail twice. If you delete it, you have to delete it twice. > > > So if I'm looking for something from Newegg, I can just click that label. >> > > > I'd select the NewEgg folder, then type in the search bar. > > > However, if I'm looking for something and don't remember where I saw it, I >> can go to Shopping and search there. >> > > > I'd select all folders inside the Shopping folder, then type in the search > bar. With the added benefit of never needing to label for both "NewEgg" and > "Shopping" in the first place. > > > Sure, you might be able to get some of this functionality from an app, but >> from a webmail provider? >> > > > That one you've got me on. Gmail is by far one of the best webmail clients > available. Though Horde's DIMP (dynamic IMP) is pretty good too -- it's > almost like a local mail client. ;-) > > But I'm not really excited about *any* email client, web-based or > otherwise. I was just trying to figure out why labels were better than > folders; I think the answer is "some clients make it easier to use labels > than make copies" -- is there more to it than that? Instead of cluttering up your e-mail with copies of e-mails, labels allow you to have the same e-mail in multiple areas. Plus, I have filters set up to automatically label e-mails from Newegg with both the Newegg label AND the Shopping label. I don't have to do anything special now that the filters are set up. One thing I do need, is a filter to delete e-mail after a certain age. I just checked my Shopping label, and I have e-mails that are over a year old! Something tells me those prices are out of date. > > Zach > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > -- Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/a3bebdd2/attachment.htm From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Wed Mar 11 11:10:29 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Wed Mar 11 11:11:29 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: References: <5a9568c20903110834h555be775s7b6688537fd335e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903111110.29376.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-11 at 10:51:41, Zachary Kotlarek wrote: >But I'm not really excited about *any* email client, web-based or >otherwise. I was just trying to figure out why labels were better than >folders; I think the answer is "some clients make it easier to use >labels than make copies" -- is there more to it than that? I think that's it; it is just a difference in what the client software makes easy to do. For some of the usage scenarios you described, i use filters in Gmail to cut down on the manual work. For instance, i have filters set up for a few of my friends so that whenever i receive something from them the message is automatically tagged with their label. The message of course also stays in the inbox until i've archived it. By writing a few carefully crafted filters i've been able to almost completely eliminate having to actually manage my e-mail when i'm in Gmail. The filters just take care of it most of the time. I realize something similar would be possible with a desktop client. But if i write a filter to copy a message to another folder while still leaving it in the inbox, and then i read the inbox copy, will the other folder copy also be marked as read? I've so far never used a desktop client in the same way as Gmail. It would be very nice to be able to do so though, and know that the messages are merely being tagged rather than copied (with the extra disk usage that implies). Most commonly on a desktop client i use POP rather than IMAP though. The way KMail stores messages (a separate maildir for each folder), if i ask it to make a copy of a message, it makes an actual copy (not even a hard link), so it would not be possible to perform an action on one copy and have it affect all copies as it does with a label paradigm where all "copies" are actually just 1. I don't know how this would differ if i used IMAP though. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From cmlburnett at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 11:21:11 2009 From: cmlburnett at gmail.com (Colin Burnett) Date: Wed Mar 11 11:22:11 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <200903111110.29376.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <5a9568c20903110834h555be775s7b6688537fd335e9@mail.gmail.com> <200903111110.29376.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > > Most commonly on a desktop client i use POP rather than IMAP though. The > way KMail stores messages (a separate maildir for each folder), if i > ask it to make a copy of a message, it makes an actual copy (not even a > hard link), so it would not be possible to perform an action on one > copy and have it affect all copies as it does with a label paradigm > where all "copies" are actually just 1. I don't know how this would > differ if i used IMAP though. I use getmail to archive my gmail locally so I have a backup. I fetch all "folders" and store them in a single maildir so I don't have any duplicates, but that comes at the cost of losing my labels. Would be nice if the gmail->IMAP interface put the labels in a X-header or something in the message. Could probably write something else that maintains a list of mails per label. I care much more about having the content of the emails then the meta data so I'm perfectly happy to have label-less emails than no emails at all. I guess, alternatively, I could write a getmail script per label and store them as separate maildirs Colin From cniesen at gmx.net Wed Mar 11 11:44:53 2009 From: cniesen at gmx.net (Claus) Date: Wed Mar 11 11:46:01 2009 Subject: [Cialug] How to retire a domain (was: AAFUGIT) In-Reply-To: <49B675F2.2080906@vonahsen.com> References: <49B670F0.8050309@gmail.com> <49B675F2.2080906@vonahsen.com> Message-ID: <49B7EA85.7030808@gmx.net> I had to retire the domain of a non-profit organization as well. One of my personal goals was trying to avoid that the domain is being picked up by anyone questionable. Especially since some outdated document around the internet still link to the old domain. The idea was to make the domain name worthless. I archived this by registering the domain for an additional year but not directing the traffic to anywhere. No notice, no redirects, nothing. And it did work. Nobody picked up the domain name. :) Claus Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > Todd Walton wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Jeff Chapin >> wrote: >>> Does anyone have a way to contact member (particularly administrators) >>> of the AAFUGIT group? >>> >>> Additionally, is this group still active at all? >> >> According to Zachary Kotlarek the group has become AmesFUG. >> > > good catch - I think in the interest of resume items, they rebranded as > AmesFUG 3-4 years ago and let the domain lapse. aafugit.org is now a > front-end for porn-spam (don't click any of the links, but it's too > late, it seems) > > replace aafugit with amesfug for my previous comments > > > -barry > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From nathanism at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 13:12:39 2009 From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien) Date: Wed Mar 11 13:13:40 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? Message-ID: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> Howdy Luggers, http://www.h-online.com/news/Secure-deletion-a-single-overwrite-will-do-it--/112432 In the above link, the author says that multi-pass hard drive wiping programs are silly, because overwriting data once with zeroes is enough to make it unrecoverable to forensics experts. This is definitely counter to what I have been taught, and I'm curious what y'all think about it. - Nathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/dcacf78f/attachment.html From linux-list at upeke.com Wed Mar 11 13:21:07 2009 From: linux-list at upeke.com (Andrew Denner) Date: Wed Mar 11 13:22:27 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2a498adf0903111121j6016dff9v380d00fb64d53fa5@mail.gmail.com> It may be overkill but I have always been a fan of DBAN ( http://www.dban.org/) for erasing hard drives it is relatively quick and mostly hands free. On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Nathan Stien wrote: > Howdy Luggers, > > > http://www.h-online.com/news/Secure-deletion-a-single-overwrite-will-do-it--/112432 > > In the above link, the author says that multi-pass hard drive wiping > programs are silly, because overwriting data once with zeroes is enough to > make it unrecoverable to forensics experts. This is definitely counter to > what I have been taught, and I'm curious what y'all think about it. > > - Nathan > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/aa4161ed/attachment.htm From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Wed Mar 11 13:22:38 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Wed Mar 11 13:24:11 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B7BB0B.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net> This was confirmed at my most recent security conference. Really, it's a balance between practicality and ideal security. In the olden days, the drives were also smaller capacity, which resulted in larger "bins" representing the ones and zeros. The logic to do multi-passes to overwrite the data was based on the following facts: 1) We don't want to buy new drives, because drives are expensive. 2) Our data is highly valuable, and we have to securely remove it before we reuse the drives. 3) The "slip" factor with the heads in the relative large bins are such that if we overwrite the data, you can check the "edges" and still see what was there. Point 3 was real, but MUCH less of a concern for drives than it was for tapes. Since they dealt with the problem of tapes with multiple passes, they figured that the same would work for drives. It did... but then things changed. These days, storage is cheap and the bins are very small. Additionally, as part of the drives being cheap, the heads are cheap, so you can't easily position the head to another location at the edge of each bin. Thus, one overwrite effectively wipes out the data. >From a practicality standpoint, you basically have two classifications of data: 1) OMG TOP SECRET!!!eleven!!!!! 2) Everything Else For level 1, the sort of data that, if leaked, would topple governments, kill businesses or produce a sequel to Stan Lee's "Lightspeed", the best option is to wipe the drive, shred it and burn the remainder. (In small business, put two holes through the platters and power the drives on.) After all, storage is cheap. For level 2, one pass is sufficient. -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej@alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 >>> Nathan Stien 03/11/09 1:12 PM >>> Howdy Luggers, http://www.h-online.com/news/Secure-deletion-a-single-overwrite-will-do-it--/112432 In the above link, the author says that multi-pass hard drive wiping programs are silly, because overwriting data once with zeroes is enough to make it unrecoverable to forensics experts. This is definitely counter to what I have been taught, and I'm curious what y'all think about it. - Nathan From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Wed Mar 11 13:25:05 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Wed Mar 11 13:26:16 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: IF you are protecting yourself from the neighbor kids once might be enough. To protect yourself from your own government and large organizations, it must be re-written multiple times. or it can still be read. To be certain, drill some holes in it. -Nate ________________________________ From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stien Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:13 PM To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? Howdy Luggers, http://www.h-online.com/news/Secure-deletion-a-single-overwrite-will-do-it--/112432 In the above link, the author says that multi-pass hard drive wiping programs are silly, because overwriting data once with zeroes is enough to make it unrecoverable to forensics experts. This is definitely counter to what I have been taught, and I'm curious what y'all think about it. - Nathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/0480c471/attachment.html From mrdovey at iedu.com Wed Mar 11 13:44:24 2009 From: mrdovey at iedu.com (Morris Dovey) Date: Wed Mar 11 13:43:34 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> Nathan Stien wrote: > In the above link, the author says that multi-pass hard drive wiping > programs are silly, because overwriting data once with zeroes is enough > to make it unrecoverable to forensics experts. This is definitely > counter to what I have been taught, and I'm curious what y'all think > about it. Methinks it depends on {1} how the drive was used and (2) on the resourcefulness of the folks wanting to recover the data. If the data areas were changed frequently, then there may be less risk; and if the data areas were changed only infrequently and read back with very much more sensitive amplifiers, it might be possible to recover a much larger portion of the content. -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/ From zach at kotlarek.com Wed Mar 11 14:30:22 2009 From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek) Date: Wed Mar 11 14:31:27 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Web Slowing Down In-Reply-To: <5a9568c20903110907s41bde5eci2a9243d050af76e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <2a498adf0903102055v1697f23anc9b3302d7578387f@mail.gmail.com> <200903110857.12521.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <5a9568c20903110834h555be775s7b6688537fd335e9@mail.gmail.com> <5a9568c20903110907s41bde5eci2a9243d050af76e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <17E6487D-C849-4EDA-8EAE-C0D2311A7C8B@kotlarek.com> On Mar 11, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Tim Wilson wrote: > Yeah, but now you have that same e-mail twice. If you delete it, > you have to delete it twice. From my perspective that's a benefit, but I can see why you might prefer an alternate system. Personally I never really delete my email -- I create transient copies that go into task-specific folders, which are then deleted immediately when the related task is complete, and keep a master copy archived separately. In a label-based system I would never use the delete function at all, I would just add and remove labels in addition to the omnipresent "archive" label; I could create essentially exactly the same workflow under either system. Depending on your work habits and preferences, and the available mail clients, I can see why either system might be useful. But at least for me, the models are essentially indifferent views of the same data, other than in whether you call the operations "copy/delete" or "label/ unlabel". Zach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/eefb14c2/smime.bin From timchampion at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 14:46:33 2009 From: timchampion at gmail.com (Tim Champion) Date: Wed Mar 11 14:47:38 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> Message-ID: <7aa1cdb20903111246y1ededec9tf953705e05ad9118@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Morris Dovey wrote: > Nathan Stien wrote: > > In the above link, the author says that multi-pass hard drive wiping >> programs are silly, because overwriting data once with zeroes is enough to >> make it unrecoverable to forensics experts. This is definitely counter to >> what I have been taught, and I'm curious what y'all think about it. >> > > Methinks it depends on {1} how the drive was used and (2) on the > resourcefulness of the folks wanting to recover the data. > > If the data areas were changed frequently, then there may be less risk; and > if the data areas were changed only infrequently and read back with very > much more sensitive amplifiers, it might be possible to recover a much > larger portion of the content. > > -- > Morris Dovey > DeSoto Solar > DeSoto, Iowa USA > http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > Whenever I hear of people drilling holes through functioning hard drives, it makes me sad and angry. Its a perfectly good drive! Why are you destroying it?? If you are THAT worried about your data, do a 3 pass wipe with DBAN, and then you have a good hard drive with no chance of getting the data off. If I remember right, a 3 pass DBAN wipe is 1. all 0's 2. random bits called "Mersenne twister" 3. all 0's again. I think that is a Department of Defense complaint way to wipe your hard drive. I worked for an organization that stored DOD medical records, and that's what we did with the drives before returning the leased machines to our leasing company (or selling them to employee's or whatnot). I know people say they don't have time to do that, time is money, blah, blah. First off, it takes very little time to boot up DBAN and start a wipe. You don't have to babysit it. Second, I think those people just want to drill holes in stuff and grunt like Tim the Tool Man Taylor more than they care how much time they are spending wiping a drive. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/515f3790/attachment.htm From nathanism at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 15:38:41 2009 From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien) Date: Wed Mar 11 15:39:49 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <7aa1cdb20903111246y1ededec9tf953705e05ad9118@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> <7aa1cdb20903111246y1ededec9tf953705e05ad9118@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8b490d600903111338r121ceffay405d81a739b1ea1f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Tim Champion wrote: > > Second, I think those people just want to drill holes in stuff and grunt > like Tim the Tool Man Taylor more than they care how much time they are > spending wiping a drive. Well, it *does* sound pretty fun! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/43edf8e4/attachment.html From dave at 58ghz.net Wed Mar 11 16:09:11 2009 From: dave at 58ghz.net (Dave J. Hala Jr.) Date: Wed Mar 11 16:10:22 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903111338r121ceffay405d81a739b1ea1f@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> <7aa1cdb20903111246y1ededec9t f953705e05ad9118@mail.gmail.com> <8b490d600903111338r121ceffay405d81a739b1ea1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1236805751.15499.5.camel@rhel5> I prefer explosives. On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 15:38 -0500, Nathan Stien wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Tim Champion > wrote: > > > > Second, I think those people just want to drill holes in stuff > and grunt like Tim the Tool Man Taylor more than they care how > much time they are spending wiping a drive. > > Well, it *does* sound pretty fun! > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug -- ___ Dave J. Hala Jr. President OSIS, Inc. www.osis.us From nathanism at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 16:17:25 2009 From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien) Date: Wed Mar 11 16:18:31 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <1236805751.15499.5.camel@rhel5> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> <8b490d600903111338r121ceffay405d81a739b1ea1f@mail.gmail.com> <1236805751.15499.5.camel@rhel5> Message-ID: <8b490d600903111417h24670b73lf57d36108c40e0f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Dave J. Hala Jr. wrote: > I prefer explosives. Perhaps drives should just ship with small auto-destruct explosive packs in them. Of course, that could lead to some interesting malware... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/3c18b467/attachment.htm From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Wed Mar 11 16:18:55 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Wed Mar 11 16:20:55 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903111417h24670b73lf57d36108c40e0f@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> <8b490d600903111338r121ceffay405d81a739b1ea1f@mail.gmail.com> <1236805751.15499.5.camel@rhel5> <8b490d600903111417h24670b73lf57d36108c40e0f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: They do, and they go off in about 3 years time. Enjoy. ________________________________ From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stien Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:17 PM To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Dave J. Hala Jr. > wrote: I prefer explosives. Perhaps drives should just ship with small auto-destruct explosive packs in them. Of course, that could lead to some interesting malware... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/ac763307/attachment.html From jrnosee at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 16:49:38 2009 From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee@gmail.com) Date: Wed Mar 11 16:50:41 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <1236805751.15499.5.camel@rhel5> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> <8b490d600903111338r121ceffay405d81a739b1ea1f@mail.gmail.com> <1236805751.15499.5.camel@rhel5> Message-ID: Ah the joys of thermite...now if I could just get around to making some. On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Dave J. Hala Jr. wrote: > I prefer explosives. > > > On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 15:38 -0500, Nathan Stien wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Tim Champion > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Second, I think those people just want to drill holes in stuff > > and grunt like Tim the Tool Man Taylor more than they care how > > much time they are spending wiping a drive. > > > > Well, it *does* sound pretty fun! > > _______________________________________________ > > Cialug mailing list > > Cialug@cialug.org > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -- > ___ > Dave J. Hala Jr. > President OSIS, Inc. > www.osis.us > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/ad3143c7/attachment.htm From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Wed Mar 11 16:53:55 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Wed Mar 11 16:54:57 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903111653.56040.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> What i've read on the subject over the last couple years is that if you've an old MFM drive from the 1980s, one pass is insufficient. A well-financed attacker would be able to either instruct the drive to reposition its heads to read the faint left-over signal at the edge of the tracks, or disassemble the drive and use an electron microscope to read the residual magnetic fields. In the latter case, the attacker would have to be very well financed indeed, as time on such a microscope is not cheap. In the former case, perhaps all it would take is some specialized data recovery software; i don't really know. If you have a drive made in the 1990s or 2000s, don't worry about it. One pass with all zeros is adequate. The residual magnetic fields are so small that they cannot be differentiated from the background noise on the drive, even with expensive equipment. If you're really paranoid, writing a pass or two of random data won't cost anything but your time and some electricity. It might be possible in a few decades for technology to have improved enough that someone could take a 2009-era drive and pull wiped data off of it, but given that magnetic fields on drives slowly degrade anyway, it isn't something i'm personally worried about. If i have a drive that is either dying or no longer necessary, i do a one-pass wipe to zeroes, and then either discard it, give it away, or put it in storage (depending on the scenario). On 2009-03-11 at 13:12:39, Nathan Stien wrote: >In the above link, the author says that multi-pass hard drive wiping >programs are silly, because overwriting data once with zeroes is > enough to make it unrecoverable to forensics experts. This is > definitely counter to what I have been taught, and I'm curious what > y'all think about it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From nathanism at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 17:00:57 2009 From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien) Date: Wed Mar 11 17:02:03 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <200903111653.56040.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <200903111653.56040.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <8b490d600903111500q5ebf4cb3q1b873cd32498d641@mail.gmail.com> Apropos: This was the ad at the top of my gmail after participating in this thread. http://www.avax.com/drive_destroyer.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/7886f003/attachment.html From doncady at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 17:05:23 2009 From: doncady at gmail.com (Don Cady) Date: Wed Mar 11 17:06:28 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <8b490d600903111500q5ebf4cb3q1b873cd32498d641@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <200903111653.56040.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <8b490d600903111500q5ebf4cb3q1b873cd32498d641@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Nathan Stien wrote: > Apropos: This was the ad at the top of my gmail after participating in this > thread. > > http://www.avax.com/drive_destroyer.html Ah yes, me too. I'm composing a response to Tim, and was going to post script it. I found this bit slightly funny: "If the power goes out?if the plane is forced to land in enemy territory?if the embassy is under siege?" If the plane is going down, are you really going to be able to get the HDs out of your laptops and into this thing in time? Don From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Wed Mar 11 17:14:41 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Wed Mar 11 17:16:13 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? Message-ID: <49B7F1820200002E000312FE@alliancetechnologies.net> That's why the military is careful to only use Maxtor drives. The odds of them corrupt^H^H^H^H^H^H encrypting themselves before they fall into the hands of the enemy are high. -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej@alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 >>> Don Cady 03/11/09 5:06 PM >>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Nathan Stien wrote: > Apropos: This was the ad at the top of my gmail after participating in this > thread. > > http://www.avax.com/drive_destroyer.html Ah yes, me too. I'm composing a response to Tim, and was going to post script it. I found this bit slightly funny: "If the power goes out?if the plane is forced to land in enemy territory?if the embassy is under siege?" If the plane is going down, are you really going to be able to get the HDs out of your laptops and into this thing in time? Don _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From newz at bearfruit.org Wed Mar 11 17:20:51 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Wed Mar 11 17:21:55 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <200903111653.56040.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <200903111653.56040.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > What i've read on the subject over the last couple years is that if > you've an old MFM drive from the 1980s, one pass is insufficient. A > well-financed attacker would be able to either instruct the drive to > reposition its heads to read the faint left-over signal at the edge of > the tracks, or disassemble the drive and use an electron microscope to > read the residual magnetic fields. In the latter case, the attacker > would have to be very well financed indeed, as time on such a > microscope is not cheap. In the former case, perhaps all it would take > is some specialized data recovery software; i don't really know. > > If you have a drive made in the 1990s or 2000s, don't worry about it. In the mid-90's we had a software package made by (I think) PowerQuest or Binary Research. It could recover deleted data and even wiped data. You had to buy it per computer, it was a floppy disk and once used could never be used again on a different computer/hard drive configuration. You put a second hard drive into the computer, booted off the floppy (and thereby making the floppy unusable again) and it would run all night or even longer, copying the recovered data to the spare drive. Some times it would recover almost everything (when the drive was just formatted), other times, when the data was overwritten, it would recover files, folders or just portions of files. We only used it a few times because it was very expensive, both for the software and for the time involved. I used it once to recover data for a person who had formatted their drive (I was very successful iirc) and I remember a colleague using it at least once for forensic recovery in a court case (don't remember the outcome). -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From doncady at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 17:27:56 2009 From: doncady at gmail.com (Don Cady) Date: Wed Mar 11 17:28:58 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <7aa1cdb20903111246y1ededec9tf953705e05ad9118@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> <7aa1cdb20903111246y1ededec9tf953705e05ad9118@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Tim Champion wrote: > Whenever I hear of people drilling holes through functioning hard drives, it > makes me sad and angry.? Its a perfectly good drive!? Why are you destroying > it??? If you are THAT worried about your data, do a 3 pass wipe with DBAN, > and then you have a good hard drive with no chance of getting the data off. While I commiserate on some level (I'd love to buy used drives for pennies and assemble a SAN of ZFS pools*, all running on solar & wind -that's the fantastical part of my brain talking.. :p ), this is their data. To some, once proprietary data has lived on those drives, the drives are tainted. It's not actually "no chance", it's near-zero chance, sure, but not actually zero. Yes, they are THAT worried. This goes back to >> the resourcefulness of the folks wanting to recover the data. If you have a trade secret you could milk for 5-10yrs and your competitor has the _possibility_ of recovering it in 4yrs time, would you be paranoid enough to destroy the HD? Many are. The majority, however, are simply concerned with liability when it comes to financial account information, privacy-related data, health history, etc. When reducing risk, the option that reduces it closest to zero for minimal cost is the one most chosen. Short of a blow torch (back to liability again), that option is shredding-metal destruction. > drive.? I worked for an organization that stored DOD medical records, and > that's what we did with the drives before returning the leased machines to > our leasing company (or selling them to employee's or whatnot). I am glad to hear of a governemt contractor doing "the right thing". We hear so many stories of our private data being 'lost'. Don * For those who have a Sun storage environment where their technicians come out to replace degraded HDs once a year, how do you know those are going out the door "secure" ? Do you stop them before they get out the door to drill holes in the old drives? From wd0fia at hotmail.com Wed Mar 11 18:41:15 2009 From: wd0fia at hotmail.com (Keith Carpenter) Date: Wed Mar 11 18:42:22 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wiping Hard Drives In-Reply-To: <20090311220629.95C24F50A@www.cialug.org> References: <20090311220629.95C24F50A@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: Personally I prefer large caliber handguns for drilling MY hard drives:-) "I carry a gun, because a Cop is TOO heavy" Keith (former) Police Chief, Hartford IA 1982-1988 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090311/0a95b4b3/attachment.htm From tdwalton at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 20:54:54 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Wed Mar 11 20:55:56 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Nathan C. Smith wrote: > IF you are protecting yourself from the neighbor kids once might be enough. > To protect yourself from your own government and large organizations, it > must be re-written multiple times.? or it can still be read. That's my line of thinking. Besides, how much extra effort does it really take to let your program of choice do three passes versus one? -todd From tdwalton at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 20:57:09 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Wed Mar 11 20:58:13 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wiping Hard Drives In-Reply-To: References: <20090311220629.95C24F50A@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Keith Carpenter wrote: > "I carry a gun, because a Cop is TOO heavy" > > Keith > > (former) Police Chief, Hartford IA 1982-1988 Wow, I didn't think Hartford was that hard core. -todd From nathanism at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 01:05:40 2009 From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien) Date: Thu Mar 12 01:06:47 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8b490d600903112305t2344e46fjc9af2e9cc76c094@mail.gmail.com> Very interesting reply at the original link. Strikes me as credible (despite its cavalier approach to capitalization), but I am no expert on drive hardware. http://www.h-online.com/security/news/forum/S-True-but/forum-111495/msg-14370181/read/ """ considering the limitations of software or any overwrite process that uses the data interface of the drive to clear legacy information is limited by the technical limitations of this process. In many cases, any data in the HPS will not be modifiable unless the process is HPA aware and the process enables the host controller to facilitate access to this region. likewise, G-list sectors may not be accessible to most externally initiated overwrite processes. [...] to address the need for a reliable and efficient purge based process that renders the processed device reusable, and void of all data beyond laboratory effort a good solution is Secure Erase. This technology is embedded in all ATA standard compliant hard drives manufactured since 2001. Although SE is an integrated purge level technology, the means to deploy it is a challenge. developed as a means for IT admins to have a reliable sanitization technology integrated in to every drive, the potential for SE to be exploited by virus, malware or malicious intentions was too significant to leave it unprotected. consequently SE can not be initiated reliably through the use of software, or on devices connected to their host. """ That's news to me at least. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090312/64e404ec/attachment.html From dave at dchamp.net Thu Mar 12 09:15:41 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Thu Mar 12 09:16:32 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wiping Hard Drives In-Reply-To: References: <20090311220629.95C24F50A@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: <49B9190D.5040002@dchamp.net> Keith Carpenter wrote: > > Personally I prefer large caliber handguns for drilling MY hard drives:-) > > "I carry a gun, because a Cop is TOO heavy" > > Keith > > (former) Police Chief, Hartford IA 1982-1988 In our experiment a while back, we shot up an old PC case - a rather hefty AST mid-tower circa 1995 - with various guns. Most of the handguns we used, .22, 9mm, .44, .45, failed to penetrate all the way through the case. The rifle rounds, .223, .308 etc, went right through. The .50 BMG didn't even notice there was a case there... some of us thought the case would go flying, but it didn't move at all. The handgun rounds knocked it over several times. -dc From dan.sloan at drake.edu Thu Mar 12 09:37:03 2009 From: dan.sloan at drake.edu (Daniel E Sloan) Date: Thu Mar 12 09:38:11 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wiping Hard Drives In-Reply-To: References: <20090311220629.95C24F50A@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: <006801c9a31f$9c548bf0$d4fda3d0$@sloan@drake.edu> Personally I use the disks as wind chimes and the magnets on the fridge. -- Dan Sloan From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Keith Carpenter Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:41 PM To: cialug@cialug.org Subject: [Cialug] Wiping Hard Drives Personally I prefer large caliber handguns for drilling MY hard drives:-) "I carry a gun, because a Cop is TOO heavy" Keith (former) Police Chief, Hartford IA 1982-1988 _____ Windows LiveT Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090312/d4204e21/attachment-0001.htm From newz at bearfruit.org Thu Mar 12 10:18:21 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Thu Mar 12 10:19:26 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: cheap flights to ??? Message-ID: I wish the dsm airport had a way to list "deals" from this airport. Right now if you want to find deals you have to subscribe to each individual airline's newsletter. If I knew there was a $69 flight for next Friday (or whatever) I would consider a spur of the moment weekend trip with the wife. I just wish there was an easy way to find these kinds of things. Has anyone seen this kind of a thing? I contacted the airport directly and they said they have no way to know about these kinds of things. I personally think they just don't want to do it but I'm not sure why. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From dave at dchamp.net Thu Mar 12 10:28:46 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Thu Mar 12 10:29:20 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: cheap flights to ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B92A2E.10204@dchamp.net> Matthew Nuzum wrote: > I wish the dsm airport had a way to list "deals" from this airport. > Right now if you want to find deals you have to subscribe to each > individual airline's newsletter. If I knew there was a $69 flight for > next Friday (or whatever) I would consider a spur of the moment > weekend trip with the wife. I just wish there was an easy way to find > these kinds of things. > > Has anyone seen this kind of a thing? I contacted the airport directly > and they said they have no way to know about these kinds of things. I > personally think they just don't want to do it but I'm not sure why. > > Have you checked services like Orbitz or Priceline? One of my co-workers uses Orbitz all the time for booking flights. -dc From jeff at ocjtech.us Thu Mar 12 10:36:42 2009 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie) Date: Thu Mar 12 10:37:49 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: cheap flights to ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <935ead450903120836m38eea45dg5ce2c0069fe11566@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Matthew Nuzum wrote: > I wish the dsm airport had a way to list "deals" from this airport. > Right now if you want to find deals you have to subscribe to each > individual airline's newsletter. If I knew there was a $69 flight for > next Friday (or whatever) I would consider a spur of the moment > weekend trip with the wife. I just wish there was an easy way to find > these kinds of things. > > Has anyone seen this kind of a thing? I contacted the airport directly > and they said they have no way to know about these kinds of things. I > personally think they just don't want to do it but I'm not sure why. Check out Allegiant. They have flights from DSM to Las Vegas, Orlando, and a couple of other cities for pretty cheap. I don't think that their fares show up on any of the major flight booking sites, you have to go to their web site directly. I flew on Allegiant to Orlando last November and was extremely happy that I didn't have to have a layover. Every other carrier was more expensive and had at least one layover. -- Jeff Ollie From tim_linux at wilson-home.com Thu Mar 12 10:55:32 2009 From: tim_linux at wilson-home.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Thu Mar 12 10:56:38 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: cheap flights to ??? In-Reply-To: <935ead450903120836m38eea45dg5ce2c0069fe11566@mail.gmail.com> References: <935ead450903120836m38eea45dg5ce2c0069fe11566@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5a9568c20903120855k4ed16419g9c24ac6fb5c91e6@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Matthew Nuzum > wrote: > > I wish the dsm airport had a way to list "deals" from this airport. > > Right now if you want to find deals you have to subscribe to each > > individual airline's newsletter. If I knew there was a $69 flight for > > next Friday (or whatever) I would consider a spur of the moment > > weekend trip with the wife. I just wish there was an easy way to find > > these kinds of things. > > > > Has anyone seen this kind of a thing? I contacted the airport directly > > and they said they have no way to know about these kinds of things. I > > personally think they just don't want to do it but I'm not sure why. > > Check out Allegiant. They have flights from DSM to Las Vegas, > Orlando, and a couple of other cities for pretty cheap. I don't think > that their fares show up on any of the major flight booking sites, you > have to go to their web site directly. I flew on Allegiant to Orlando > last November and was extremely happy that I didn't have to have a > layover. Every other carrier was more expensive and had at least one > layover. > I flew to Vegas last August on Allegiant. The only thing to be aware of is the fees. They charge you to do your seat selection online. If you show up early enough at the airport, it doesn't matter too much. Those who select their seats online do get first boarding. Allegiant runs specials periodically. I think the current special is if you book a hotel stay in Vegas through them, someone else can fly with you for free. > > -- > Jeff Ollie > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -- Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090312/572d5e47/attachment.html From ewenix at raccoon.com Thu Mar 12 11:30:49 2009 From: ewenix at raccoon.com (ewenix@raccoon.com) Date: Thu Mar 12 11:31:52 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: cheap flights to ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26529.66.185.12.50.1236875449.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com> I'm with you, I might take off for the weekend if I knew there was a super cheap flight somewhere. With all the money the DSM airport puts into advertisements to fly out of DSM instead of driving to KC, Omaha, etc. you'd think they could manage to show seat filler deals on their own website. If I know I'm going to a specific destination I'll use kayak.com to at least compare times/cost. -Jeff > I wish the dsm airport had a way to list "deals" from this airport. > Right now if you want to find deals you have to subscribe to each > individual airline's newsletter. If I knew there was a $69 flight for > next Friday (or whatever) I would consider a spur of the moment > weekend trip with the wife. I just wish there was an easy way to find > these kinds of things. > > Has anyone seen this kind of a thing? I contacted the airport directly > and they said they have no way to know about these kinds of things. I > personally think they just don't want to do it but I'm not sure why. > > -- > Matthew Nuzum > newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dave at dchamp.net Thu Mar 12 14:06:27 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Thu Mar 12 14:07:01 2009 Subject: [Cialug] MS / TomTom legal case Message-ID: <49B95D33.6030804@dchamp.net> I don't know all of the nitty-gritty details, but have you guys been following the MS / TomTom legal case? Sounds like MS is suing TomTom for their use of the FAT filesystem. Wasn't there another case where it was upheld that the FAT patent wasn't enforceable? http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_companies_sign_microsoft_patent_protection_pacts?source=NLT_APP Seems to me like TomTom could just switch to using ext3 or some other filesystem. Maybe this is for reading add-on media like SD cards, that people just want to be able to plug into their PC and work. -dc From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Thu Mar 12 14:41:56 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Thu Mar 12 14:43:03 2009 Subject: [Cialug] MS / TomTom legal case In-Reply-To: <49B95D33.6030804@dchamp.net> References: <49B95D33.6030804@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <200903121441.56798.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> I think the new suit that is over the FAT32 system, whereas the previous case was over FAT16 (and maybe FAT12 was included in that too; i don't know). Could TomTom switch to UFS or ISO9660? I think those have about as wide of operating system support as FAT, but don't have the patent encumbrances. On 2009-03-12 at 14:06:27, David Champion wrote: >I don't know all of the nitty-gritty details, but have you guys been >following the MS / TomTom legal case? Sounds like MS is suing TomTom > for their use of the FAT filesystem. Wasn't there another case where > it was upheld that the FAT patent wasn't enforceable? > >http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_companies_sign_microsoft_patent_p >rotection_pacts?source=NLT_APP > >Seems to me like TomTom could just switch to using ext3 or some other >filesystem. Maybe this is for reading add-on media like SD cards, that >people just want to be able to plug into their PC and work. > >-dc > > >_______________________________________________ >Cialug mailing list >Cialug@cialug.org >http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From tdwalton at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 16:23:53 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Thu Mar 12 16:25:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: cheap flights to ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Matthew Nuzum wrote: > I wish the dsm airport had a way to list "deals" from this airport. The front page has a box showing going rates from DSM, through airfarewatchdog.com. And if you go to airfarewatchdog.com they have an email alert thing. http://www.dsmairport.com/ Is that not what you want? Also, they have a web page listing all airlines that fly out of DSM: http://www.dsmairport.com/travel_info/airline_info.htm You could go through the list and sign up for their respective email notifications maybe. -todd From tdwalton at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 16:45:03 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Thu Mar 12 16:46:10 2009 Subject: [Cialug] MS / TomTom legal case In-Reply-To: <49B95D33.6030804@dchamp.net> References: <49B95D33.6030804@dchamp.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David Champion wrote: > Seems to me like TomTom could just switch to using ext3 or some other > filesystem. Maybe this is for reading add-on media like SD cards, that > people just want to be able to plug into their PC and work. Yes, but that doesn't change whether they've been violating the patent all along or not. MS can still ask for money for that time. Maybe even enough to kill TomTom. -todd From newz at bearfruit.org Thu Mar 12 16:46:03 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Thu Mar 12 16:47:11 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: cheap flights to ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Todd Walton wrote: > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Matthew Nuzum wrote: >> I wish the dsm airport had a way to list "deals" from this airport. > > The front page has a box showing going rates from DSM, through > airfarewatchdog.com. ?And if you go to airfarewatchdog.com they have > an email alert thing. ? http://www.dsmairport.com/ ?Is that not what > you want? I didn't notice that. However it's not quite what I was looking for. I was thining along the lines of how Jeff described it. "quick, we need to fill up the plain" types of deals. That said, the airfarewatchdog is a cool idea but it seems to be messed up on the dsmairport homepage. Clicking it just shows you a tiny fraction of the page in an inframe and you can't scroll. Oh, after watching it for a bit I do see some pretty good deals in there. That may be a good service. Just don't click the airfarewatchdog logo. > > Also, they have a web page listing all airlines that fly out of DSM: > ? ? ? ? ?http://www.dsmairport.com/travel_info/airline_info.htm > > You could go through the list and sign up for their respective email > notifications maybe. > > -todd > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From adk at 52761.com Thu Mar 12 17:26:49 2009 From: adk at 52761.com (Allen Kiddoo) Date: Thu Mar 12 17:28:01 2009 Subject: [Cialug] OT: cheap flights to ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <678823f00903121526v614cdfddl454fd28390775abf@mail.gmail.com> Check out http://www.bt-store.com/ Friend of mine uses it all time to book flights. If there was anything cheaper HE would know about it. Allen K On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Matthew Nuzum wrote: > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Todd Walton wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Matthew Nuzum wrote: >>> I wish the dsm airport had a way to list "deals" from this airport. >> >> The front page has a box showing going rates from DSM, through >> airfarewatchdog.com. And if you go to airfarewatchdog.com they have >> an email alert thing. http://www.dsmairport.com/ Is that not what >> you want? > > I didn't notice that. However it's not quite what I was looking for. I > was thining along the lines of how Jeff described it. "quick, we need > to fill up the plain" types of deals. > > That said, the airfarewatchdog is a cool idea but it seems to be > messed up on the dsmairport homepage. Clicking it just shows you a > tiny fraction of the page in an inframe and you can't scroll. > > Oh, after watching it for a bit I do see some pretty good deals in > there. That may be a good service. Just don't click the > airfarewatchdog logo. > >> >> Also, they have a web page listing all airlines that fly out of DSM: >> http://www.dsmairport.com/travel_info/airline_info.htm >> >> You could go through the list and sign up for their respective email >> notifications maybe. >> >> -todd >> _______________________________________________ >> Cialug mailing list >> Cialug@cialug.org >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >> > > > > -- > Matthew Nuzum > newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From newz at bearfruit.org Fri Mar 13 11:54:24 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Fri Mar 13 11:55:49 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Google Gears location via wifi Message-ID: It's news to me, Google Gears can now use wifi information to improve geo location data. I personally don't understand how this can add any improvement over normal geoip database lookup but they explicitly mention it. http://google-ukdev.blogspot.com/2008/10/increased-accuracy-for-location-in.html I did a quick test and it wasn't as accurate as cell tower based location but it did put me in the right town. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From ralphkessel75 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 13 18:54:49 2009 From: ralphkessel75 at yahoo.com (Ralph Kessel) Date: Fri Mar 13 18:56:15 2009 Subject: [Cialug] re: Movie Night Message-ID: <511231.89442.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Most curious to know what is planned -- if anything or not -- if so, I would be there. Ralph Kessel -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Fri Mar 13 19:40:14 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Fri Mar 13 19:41:59 2009 Subject: [Cialug] re: Movie Night Message-ID: <49BAB69E0200002E00031466@alliancetechnologies.net> Yes. The movie night will be on April 18, starting at 3:00 pm. I don't have the address of the place yet, but will be updating the website once I do. -Josh More Mobile email powered by Nokia Intellisync ---- Original Message ---- From: "Ralph Kessel" Date: 09/3/13 18:56 To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" Subj: [Cialug] re: Movie Night Most curious to know what is planned -- if anything or not -- if so, I would be there. Ralph Kessel -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From tdwalton at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 09:28:17 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Sat Mar 14 09:29:41 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Power Supply Calculator Message-ID: http://support.asus.com/PowerSupplyCalculator/PSCalculator.aspx?SLanguage=en-us 1 CD-ROM, 1 HDD, 2 DDR2s, 2 USB devices, 1 PCI, 4 fans = 300 Watts -todd From tdwalton at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 15:37:32 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Sat Mar 14 15:38:59 2009 Subject: [Cialug] PCI Video No Boot Message-ID: So I've built me a phat new computer: 1) Core 2 Duo E8400 3GHz with VT support 2) 4GB DDR2 Kingston "HyperX" memory 3) Asus P5Q SE/R mobo 4) Everything else will be what I already have About a day after ordering the parts I realized that this motherboard has no AGP port and no built-in video. In itself that's not a problem. But all I have is an AGP video card. All it takes is PCI-E, and it has PCI slots. I wanted to get it up and running (the parts arrived yesterday) so I dug through my box of crap and found an old PCI video card. I'll get a PCI-E on my next paycheck I suppose, but this'll do to make sure the system at least works, so I can send back anything that doesn't. Only... it didn't work. I got the initial BIOS splash screen and a message at the bottom about which key to press to enter BIOS setup. But the text was garbled with dense vertical lines in place of the letters. The splash images were fine. And it went no further. It just remained on that screen indefinitely. It's possible that the card is bad. But I suspect that what's actually happening is that the BIOS just doesn't know how to run a PCI video card. PCI, yes. But a video card? It's been a while since PCI video cards were produced. What's funny is that I really don't care about graphics. As long as mpegs play, I'm good. So now I have to rustle up a PCI-E video card somewhere. Anybody have an under-$40 suggestion? -todd From dave at dchamp.net Sun Mar 15 12:51:54 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Sun Mar 15 12:53:24 2009 Subject: [Cialug] PCI Video No Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BD403A.4010006@dchamp.net> I would suspect you have a bad video card, or some other issue. An old PCI card should work. There are a lot of decent deals on not quite top-of-the-line video cards out there. You can get a nVidia 9800 GT for $99, which is a really nice card. It will play most of the current generation games just fine, if you're so inclined. Tigerdirect often has deals on some pretty nice cards. I'd recommend XFX branded cards - they have a pretty good warranty replacement policy, my last several cards have been from them. -dc Todd Walton wrote: > So I've built me a phat new computer: > > 1) Core 2 Duo E8400 3GHz with VT support > 2) 4GB DDR2 Kingston "HyperX" memory > 3) Asus P5Q SE/R mobo > 4) Everything else will be what I already have > > About a day after ordering the parts I realized that this motherboard > has no AGP port and no built-in video. In itself that's not a > problem. But all I have is an AGP video card. All it takes is PCI-E, > and it has PCI slots. I wanted to get it up and running (the parts > arrived yesterday) so I dug through my box of crap and found an old > PCI video card. I'll get a PCI-E on my next paycheck I suppose, but > this'll do to make sure the system at least works, so I can send back > anything that doesn't. > > Only... it didn't work. I got the initial BIOS splash screen and a > message at the bottom about which key to press to enter BIOS setup. > But the text was garbled with dense vertical lines in place of the > letters. The splash images were fine. And it went no further. It > just remained on that screen indefinitely. > > It's possible that the card is bad. But I suspect that what's > actually happening is that the BIOS just doesn't know how to run a PCI > video card. PCI, yes. But a video card? It's been a while since PCI > video cards were produced. What's funny is that I really don't care > about graphics. As long as mpegs play, I'm good. > > So now I have to rustle up a PCI-E video card somewhere. Anybody have > an under-$40 suggestion? > > -todd > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Sun Mar 15 12:56:02 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Sun Mar 15 12:57:44 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Linux Presentation Message-ID: <49BCFAE20200002E000314A8@alliancetechnologies.net> In case anyone cares, I will be giving a presentation on Linux and Security at the Infragard meeting on Wednesday, March 18th starting at 8:00 AM. The meeting is open, but you do need to RSVP ahead of time, so if you want to come just let me know and I'll get you on the list. I'll probably post my slides online somewhere once I'm done, but if you want to come and be interactive, next Wednesday is your chance. -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej@alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 From tdwalton at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 18:58:42 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Sun Mar 15 19:00:13 2009 Subject: [Cialug] PCI Video No Boot In-Reply-To: <49BD403A.4010006@dchamp.net> References: <49BD403A.4010006@dchamp.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 12:51 PM, David Champion wrote: > I would suspect you have a bad video card, or some other issue. An old PCI > card should work. Well, I broke down and spent $60 on a card at Dymin. I popped it in and the thing booted right up. It could be either way I suppose. Oh well. -todd From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 16 12:55:24 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 16 12:56:25 2009 Subject: [Cialug] PCI Video No Boot In-Reply-To: References: <49BD403A.4010006@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <49BE928C.7050308@dchamp.net> Todd Walton wrote: > On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 12:51 PM, David Champion wrote: > >> I would suspect you have a bad video card, or some other issue. An old PCI >> card should work. >> > > Well, I broke down and spent $60 on a card at Dymin. I popped it in > and the thing booted right up. It could be either way I suppose. Oh > well. > Glad to hear it worked out for you. Just curious, what kind of card did you end up with? -dc From tdwalton at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 20:41:25 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Mon Mar 16 20:42:59 2009 Subject: [Cialug] PCI Video No Boot In-Reply-To: <49BE928C.7050308@dchamp.net> References: <49BD403A.4010006@dchamp.net> <49BE928C.7050308@dchamp.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 12:55 PM, David Champion wrote: > Glad to hear it worked out for you. Just curious, what kind of card did you > end up with? An EVGA e-GeForce 8400 GS. Goes for about $40 online. -todd From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Mon Mar 16 21:13:27 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Mon Mar 16 21:15:10 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Meeting on Wednesday Message-ID: <49BEC0F70200002E00031602@alliancetechnologies.net> Just a reminder that this Wednesday (7:00 pm @ Alliance), the LUG will be meeting to discuss Zimbra. We actually have a presentation and several people that have used it in production environments, so please make a point to come. If you've not been to a meeting before and need help getting here, maps and directions are at http://www.cialug.org/component/option,com_eventlist/Itemid,29/func,details/did,8/ -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej@alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 From newz at bearfruit.org Wed Mar 18 12:48:27 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Wed Mar 18 12:50:11 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Mixing wifi 802.11 A,B,G,N Message-ID: Hi, a while back, when G came out and started taking the steam out of A, I heard that using B and G on the same network caused G performance to drop to the B level. This would have been the very early G days so I was wondering if with today's wireless networking if you have an N router and one each of B, G and N devices, will they all get their maximum speed or will some of them suffer a performance hit? -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From nfox at foxmediasystems.com Wed Mar 18 20:28:23 2009 From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox) Date: Wed Mar 18 20:30:18 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Mixing wifi 802.11 A,B,G,N In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C19FB7.3000003@foxmediasystems.com> Matthew Nuzum wrote: > Hi, a while back, when G came out and started taking the steam out of > A, I heard that using B and G on the same network caused G performance > to drop to the B level. This would have been the very early G days so > I was wondering if with today's wireless networking if you have an N > router and one each of B, G and N devices, will they all get their > maximum speed or will some of them suffer a performance hit? > > Most consumer hardware does this. I have only come across one enterprise product that doesn't. To clarify the point, it will only slow to the lowest speed device attached to the wireless network. -- Nick Fox Fox Media Systems, LLC Owner / President 1338 57th St. Des Moines, IA 50311 www.foxmediasystems.com From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Wed Mar 18 20:33:14 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Wed Mar 18 20:35:14 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Mixing wifi 802.11 A,B,G,N Message-ID: <49C15A8A0200002E000317D9@alliancetechnologies.net> I believe that the B+G issue was that the data types were incompatible. N is basically G that's been multiplexed with different radios. I'd think that a G+N network should be fine, but a B+N network might still have issues. -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej@alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 >>> Nick Fox 03/18/09 8:29 PM >>> Matthew Nuzum wrote: > Hi, a while back, when G came out and started taking the steam out of > A, I heard that using B and G on the same network caused G performance > to drop to the B level. This would have been the very early G days so > I was wondering if with today's wireless networking if you have an N > router and one each of B, G and N devices, will they all get their > maximum speed or will some of them suffer a performance hit? > > Most consumer hardware does this. I have only come across one enterprise product that doesn't. To clarify the point, it will only slow to the lowest speed device attached to the wireless network. -- Nick Fox Fox Media Systems, LLC Owner / President 1338 57th St. Des Moines, IA 50311 www.foxmediasystems.com _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From zach at kotlarek.com Wed Mar 18 21:35:54 2009 From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek) Date: Wed Mar 18 21:37:42 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Mixing wifi 802.11 A,B,G,N In-Reply-To: <49C15A8A0200002E000317D9@alliancetechnologies.net> References: <49C15A8A0200002E000317D9@alliancetechnologies.net> Message-ID: On Mar 18, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Josh More wrote: > I believe that the B+G issue was that the data types were > incompatible. > > N is basically G that's been multiplexed with different radios. I'd > think that a G+N network should be fine, but a B+N network might still > have issues. 802.11n actually wraps all its messages in a 802.11g or 802.11a message, depending on the frequency range in use, so that legacy radios don't try to transmit at the same time. There's not a huge penalty to support that sort of mix-mode operation, but if you actually have much traffic in b/g mode you will greatly reduce the timeslots available for use in n mode, and thereby greatly reduce the throughput. It's like having two 802.11g access points next to each other -- the throughput of either is 54 Mbps, even if they are both running, so long as only one is transmitting. But their combined throughput when used simultaneously is still only 54 Mbps because the use the same spectrum for all transmissions. In mixed-mode B/G/N operation there's the same limitation -- total bandwidth is 11(b) + 54(g) + 300(n), where b+g+n = 1; the maximum available bandwidth rapidly approaches 11 Mbps as the amount of 802.11b traffic increases. Technically the faster devices still transfer at higher rates, but the get to do it less frequently, so the overall throughput rate still goes down. -- If you run N in the 2.4 GHz range it will be affected by B/G radios. If you run it in the 5 GHz range it will only be affected by A radios. Most mixed-mode b/g/n equipment runs only in the 2.4 GHz range -- if you want to avoid interactions between the two modes get a 5 GHz 802.11n unit and run it separately, or a dual-radio unit that can run N in the 5 GHz range and B/G in the 2.4 GHz range. Either way you'll have support for legacy devices without any degradation of the high- speed network, and with only slightly more administrative overhead. Typically only downside to 5 GHz operation, if you have the equipment, is less penetration -- 2.4 GHz waves go through many household things better, so depending on the physical layout of your equipment and the surrounding environment you might have to deal with reduced range. But you gain spectrum separation from B/G radios, microwaves, phones, and bluetooth devices, and you get access to more channels with better spacing, so is range/penetration is not an issue for you it's generally a net gain. Zach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090318/60a49645/smime.bin From cniesen at gmx.net Thu Mar 19 11:58:05 2009 From: cniesen at gmx.net (Claus) Date: Thu Mar 19 12:00:15 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SMTP Graylisting & Iowa Telecom Message-ID: <49C2799D.1000500@gmx.net> Does iowatelecom.net not handle foreign graylisting very well? A mail got sent via mg.iowatelecom.net [69.66.1.16] to me on Saturday March 14 and I did not get the message until today. We had a meeting about the message on Monday and I was the only one in the dark. I use postfix with postgrey and the default delay of 5 minutes. I checked the log for incoming connections from Iowa Telecom and I found one only on March 14 and today. Do any of you experience the same issue with Iowa Telecom? Claus From nathanism at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 13:56:34 2009 From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien) Date: Thu Mar 19 13:58:22 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Semi-OT: wiping a hard drive once is enough? In-Reply-To: <1236805751.15499.5.camel@rhel5> References: <8b490d600903111112m1d34f741rb1282c2d7433bbe6@mail.gmail.com> <49B80688.5070507@iedu.com> <8b490d600903111338r121ceffay405d81a739b1ea1f@mail.gmail.com> <1236805751.15499.5.camel@rhel5> Message-ID: <8b490d600903191156s2a48a9a7y98a6bcbf4b177229@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Dave J. Hala Jr. wrote: > I prefer explosives. > Apparently so do the people who made the first video on this page: http://lifehacker.com/5154818/hard-drive-disposal-with-extreme-prejudice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090319/05690a6c/attachment.html From ken at bitsko.slc.ut.us Thu Mar 19 16:40:59 2009 From: ken at bitsko.slc.ut.us (Ken MacLeod) Date: Thu Mar 19 16:42:51 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SMTP Graylisting & Iowa Telecom In-Reply-To: <49C2799D.1000500@gmx.net> References: <49C2799D.1000500@gmx.net> Message-ID: <7ee95fff0903191440g1b7e43d0s626bfd747b3a3c36@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Claus wrote: > Does iowatelecom.net not handle foreign graylisting very well? > > A mail got sent via mg.iowatelecom.net [69.66.1.16] to me on Saturday > March 14 and I did not get the message until today. We had a meeting about > the message on Monday and I was the only one in the dark. > > I use postfix with postgrey and the default delay of 5 minutes. I checked > the log for incoming connections from Iowa Telecom and I found one only on > March 14 and today. > I've been seeing DNS resolution problems for sites looking up my MX records (e.g. mailing list bounces, mailer retries). Could be a more widespread problem. -- Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090319/8229cd58/attachment.htm From kristau at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 20:23:25 2009 From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau) Date: Thu Mar 19 20:25:22 2009 Subject: [Cialug] My notes from the March meeting: http://www.kristau.net/index.php?id=38 Message-ID: <3effba680903191823m1710693ag50b294fcfa2d0253@mail.gmail.com> http://www.kristau.net/index.php?id=38 -- Tired programmer Coding late into the night The core dump follows From cniesen at gmx.net Fri Mar 20 08:39:02 2009 From: cniesen at gmx.net (Claus) Date: Fri Mar 20 08:41:01 2009 Subject: [Cialug] SMTP Graylisting & Iowa Telecom In-Reply-To: <7ee95fff0903191440g1b7e43d0s626bfd747b3a3c36@mail.gmail.com> References: <49C2799D.1000500@gmx.net> <7ee95fff0903191440g1b7e43d0s626bfd747b3a3c36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C39C76.3050707@gmx.net> Ken MacLeod wrote: > On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Claus wrote: > >> Does iowatelecom.net not handle foreign graylisting very well? >> >> A mail got sent via mg.iowatelecom.net [69.66.1.16] to me on Saturday >> March 14 and I did not get the message until today. We had a meeting about >> the message on Monday and I was the only one in the dark. >> >> I use postfix with postgrey and the default delay of 5 minutes. I checked >> the log for incoming connections from Iowa Telecom and I found one only on >> March 14 and today. >> > > > I've been seeing DNS resolution problems for sites looking up my MX records > (e.g. mailing list bounces, mailer retries). Could be a more widespread > problem. > > -- Ken Hello Ken, Everything seems to check out for me, even the reverse resolution. What in particular about the DNS resolution gives you issues? BTW, I noticed that an earlier message on March 11th from the same person (i.e. iowatelecom.net) took 5 days as well before the retry was done. Claus From terry at HaimannOnline.com Sat Mar 21 10:53:33 2009 From: terry at HaimannOnline.com (Terry A. Haimann) Date: Sat Mar 21 11:01:42 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wireless Message-ID: <49C50D7D.1070007@HaimannOnline.com> I have Fedora 10 installed on a Compaq C762NR Laptop. According to Fedora, it is running a Atheros AR242x 80.11 abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter. FC10 is supposed to be able to use this adapter native, but I haven't been able to get it to work. Searching on this laptop and wireless Linux, results in a link to a Ubuntu help site recommending a madwifi driver, but the link is dead. I also have another option, a Belkin N usb wireless adapter. I actually had it working for a while under ndiswrapper, but now if I try to boot with it in the computer the boot fails. If I put it in after booting the laptop freezes. If there is another adapter that someone would recommend, I would be glad to purchase it. Can someone help me with this? I have some command prompt skills. From crazyjuggler at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 11:32:17 2009 From: crazyjuggler at gmail.com (TJ Vance) Date: Sat Mar 21 11:34:14 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wireless In-Reply-To: <49C50D7D.1070007@HaimannOnline.com> References: <49C50D7D.1070007@HaimannOnline.com> Message-ID: <873ca6ce0903210932l4abd5af6h88dfeb8353ceae1@mail.gmail.com> I'd try this link: http://snapshots.madwifi-project.org/madwifi-hal-testing/madwifi-hal-testing-r3942-20090205.tar.gz compile that (make sure you have headers and a build environment set up)... that did it for me on a HAL atheros chipset back in october or so. Cheers TJ On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Terry A. Haimann wrote: > I have Fedora 10 installed on a Compaq C762NR Laptop. According to Fedora, > it is running a Atheros AR242x 80.11 abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter. FC10 > is supposed to be able to use this adapter native, but I haven't been able > to get it to work. Searching on this laptop and wireless Linux, results in > a link to a Ubuntu help site recommending a madwifi driver, but the link is > dead. > I also have another option, a Belkin N usb wireless adapter. I actually > had it working for a while under ndiswrapper, but now if I try to boot with > it in the computer the boot fails. If I put it in after booting the laptop > freezes. If there is another adapter that someone would recommend, I would > be glad to purchase it. > > Can someone help me with this? I have some command prompt skills. > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090321/1d4bf2fb/attachment.html From terry at HaimannOnline.com Sat Mar 21 15:20:11 2009 From: terry at HaimannOnline.com (Terry A. Haimann) Date: Sat Mar 21 15:28:31 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Re: Cialug Digest, Vol 47, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: <20090321170005.2969DF620@www.cialug.org> References: <20090321170005.2969DF620@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: <49C54BFB.3070608@HaimannOnline.com> It compiled, but nothing happened when I did a modprobe ath_pci I then tried restarting the network and then rebooting. It still doesn't see a wireless card. If I try activating it via Network Device Control, it says Error for wireless request set mode 8b06 Attached is the output from modinfo cialug-request@cialug.org wrote: > Send Cialug mailing list submissions to > cialug@cialug.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cialug-request@cialug.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cialug-owner@cialug.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cialug digest..." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Wireless (Terry A. Haimann) > 2. Re: Wireless (TJ Vance) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -------------- next part -------------- modinfo ath_pci filename: /lib/modules/2.6.27.19-170.2.35.fc10.i686/net/ath_pci.ko license: Dual BSD/GPL version: svn r3942 description: Support for Atheros 802.11 wireless LAN cards. author: Errno Consulting, Sam Leffler srcversion: 47DC0DA398F36504BCD48A3 alias: pci:v0000168Cd00009013sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000024sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000023sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd0000001Dsv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd0000001Csv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd0000001Bsv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd0000001Asv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000019sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000018sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000017sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000016sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000015sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd0000101Asv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00001014sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v000010B7d00000013sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000A727d00000013sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000013sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000012sv*sd*bc*sc*i* alias: pci:v0000168Cd00000007sv*sd*bc*sc*i* depends: ath_hal,wlan vermagic: 2.6.27.19-170.2.35.fc10.i686 SMP mod_unload 686 4KSTACKS parm: beacon_cal:int parm: countrycode:Override default country code. Default is 0. (int) parm: maxvaps:Maximum VAPs. Default is 4. (int) parm: outdoor:Enable/disable outdoor use. Default is 0. (int) parm: xchanmode:Enable/disable extended channel mode. (int) parm: rfkill:Enable/disable RFKILL capability. Default is 0. (int) parm: hal_tpc:Disables manual per-packet transmit power control and lets this be managed by the HAL. Default is OFF. (int) parm: autocreate:Create ath device in [sta|ap|wds|adhoc|ahdemo|monitor] mode. defaults to sta, use 'none' to disable (charp) parm: ratectl:Rate control algorithm [amrr|minstrel|onoe|sample], defaults to 'sample' (charp) parm: intmit:Enable interference mitigation by default. Default is 0. (int) parm: ath_debug:Load-time driver debug output enable (int) parm: ieee80211_debug:Load-time 802.11 debug output enable (int) From terry at HaimannOnline.com Sun Mar 22 16:06:53 2009 From: terry at HaimannOnline.com (Terry A. Haimann) Date: Sun Mar 22 16:15:30 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wireless In-Reply-To: <873ca6ce0903210932l4abd5af6h88dfeb8353ceae1@mail.gmail.com> References: <49C50D7D.1070007@HaimannOnline.com> <873ca6ce0903210932l4abd5af6h88dfeb8353ceae1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C6A86D.1040502@HaimannOnline.com> Some progress. After booting up according to the GUI, there is no wireless. But if you do the following: ifconfig wlan0 up iwlist wlan0 scan iwconfig wlan0 essid dhclient wlan0 I can connect (It worked at Caribou this afternoon.) I don't know why the GUI can't see the wireless, but I suppose I can create some app to do the logon. Question, how would I modify these commands to sign on to a secured network? Thx in advance, Terry TJ Vance wrote: > I'd try this link: > > http://snapshots.madwifi-project.org/madwifi-hal-testing/madwifi-hal-testing-r3942-20090205.tar.gz > > compile that (make sure you have headers and a build environment set > up)... that did it for me on a HAL atheros chipset back in october or so. > > Cheers > TJ > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Terry A. Haimann > > wrote: > > I have Fedora 10 installed on a Compaq C762NR Laptop. According > to Fedora, it is running a Atheros AR242x 80.11 abg Wireless PCI > Express Adapter. FC10 is supposed to be able to use this adapter > native, but I haven't been able to get it to work. Searching on > this laptop and wireless Linux, results in a link to a Ubuntu help > site recommending a madwifi driver, but the link is dead. > I also have another option, a Belkin N usb wireless adapter. I > actually had it working for a while under ndiswrapper, but now if > I try to boot with it in the computer the boot fails. If I put it > in after booting the laptop freezes. If there is another adapter > that someone would recommend, I would be glad to purchase it. > > Can someone help me with this? I have some command prompt skills. > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > From kristau at gmail.com Sun Mar 22 21:04:44 2009 From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau) Date: Sun Mar 22 21:06:48 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wireless In-Reply-To: <49C6A86D.1040502@HaimannOnline.com> References: <49C50D7D.1070007@HaimannOnline.com> <873ca6ce0903210932l4abd5af6h88dfeb8353ceae1@mail.gmail.com> <49C6A86D.1040502@HaimannOnline.com> Message-ID: <3effba680903221904m184dddb1hc4890cefde8343ae@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Terry A. Haimann wrote: > Question, how would I modify these commands to sign on to a secured > network? The answer is, it depends on how the wireless is secured. With WEP, the options to add a WEP key are right in the iwconfig command: iwconfig wlan0 essid key If you are connecting to a WPA or WPA2 network, you will need to utilize wpa_supplicant. Look at the QUICK START section in the man page for wpa_supplicant for the basic steps. BTW, I used to set up my wireless connections solely with command line scripts. Recently, the GUI network tools have gotten good enough (in Mint, Ubuntu and SUSE at least) that I've not had to use scripts in a long time. I'm surprised you are having trouble with the GUI Network Manager in FC 10. Although Ubuntu also uses Network Manager, you may try booting to a live Ubuntu disc to see whether or not it recognizes your wireless. -- Tired programmer Coding late into the night The core dump follows From tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 23 10:45:46 2009 From: tomsellers2001 at yahoo.com (Tom Sellers) Date: Mon Mar 23 10:47:51 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wireshark Message-ID: <966666.25170.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Is anyone familiar with this protocol evaluation package? I have been trying to determine the difference between my Windows machine and Linux machine response times in browsing and using network tools. When looking at the capture for the Linux machine there is a line in the center part of the display screen that is displayed in red. However if I look at the same commands from the Windows machine this is not true. If you read the english display of the two they seem to be the same. The screen is divided up into three sections from top to bottom. The top section displays the packets by number. The center section (where I see the line in red) is an english language breakdown of the packet contents. The bottom section displays the actual packet in hexidecimal characters. I have not found why this one line is displayed in red in the documentation up to this point. Does anyone know what this means? From jeff at ocjtech.us Mon Mar 23 10:56:21 2009 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie) Date: Mon Mar 23 10:58:27 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Wireshark In-Reply-To: <966666.25170.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <966666.25170.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <935ead450903230856j1af795b8p96677198899c83de@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Tom Sellers wrote: > > I have not found why this one line is displayed in red in the documentation up to this point. Does anyone know what this means? It probably has to do with checksums and checksum offloading: http://www.wireshark.org/docs/wsug_html_chunked/ChAdvChecksums.html#id4743233 If that's not it post a screenshot. -- Jeff Ollie From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 23 22:17:35 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 23 22:14:00 2009 Subject: [Cialug] router botnet worm Message-ID: If you're running openwrt or dd-wrt, you might want to read this: http://dronebl.org/blog/8 -dc From tdwalton at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 10:54:39 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Tue Mar 24 10:56:48 2009 Subject: [Cialug] They're Not Really Bad, them Open Source guys Message-ID: http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/03/24/conficker.computer.worm/index.html The first iteration of Conficker is thought to have grown out of a free function for security programs created by Dr. Ronald Rivest, a computer science professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "Any technology can be used for good or evil, and this is just an example of that," Rivest said. Many viruses have taken pieces of benevolent programs and used them for ill. But overall the "open source" environment online promotes computer security far more than it enables hackers, DeBolt said. "I don't blame the open-source community at all" for virus attacks, he said. ====================================================== It's nice of him to say that and all, but where the heck did that come from anyway? What does open source have to do with it in the first place? -todd From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 24 13:39:20 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 24 13:41:10 2009 Subject: [Cialug] flash media players Message-ID: <49C928D8.2060607@dchamp.net> Dan J. and I were talking a couple of days ago about flash media players (i.e. youtube) that you can use on your sites. I found this one, flowplayer, that's GPL. It also has a plugin system to play various media formats. http://flowplayer.org/ I haven't used it in production yet, but it works OK for the simple tests I've tried. -dc From crouse at usalug.net Tue Mar 24 14:23:36 2009 From: crouse at usalug.net (Dave Crouse) Date: Tue Mar 24 14:25:48 2009 Subject: [Cialug] flash media players In-Reply-To: <49C928D8.2060607@dchamp.net> References: <49C928D8.2060607@dchamp.net> Message-ID: That's pretty cool. Thanks :) Dave Crouse On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:39 PM, David Champion wrote: > Dan J. and I were talking a couple of days ago about flash media players > (i.e. youtube) that you can use on your sites. > > I found this one, flowplayer, that's GPL. It also has a plugin system to > play various media formats. > > http://flowplayer.org/ > > I haven't used it in production yet, but it works OK for the simple tests > I've tried. > > -dc > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From tdwalton at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 10:10:04 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Thu Mar 26 10:12:21 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail Message-ID: Anybody have any recommendations on an open source webmail program? I'm looking for something a little more sophisticated than the SquirrelMail that came with my hosting account. Searching the Internets I count: Zimbra, AtMail, RoundCube, Horde IMP I kind of like the looks of Horde, because they have all the other crap I can add on to do neat stuff. But I also want something that's going to work simply and going to work well and maybe I don't want to start adding crap if I'm just gonna get myself in trouble. But anyway, what's a real-world real-good set up? -todd From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Thu Mar 26 10:12:14 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Thu Mar 26 10:14:32 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Roundcube is a little better (some might say) than squirrelmail and is reasonably easy to get running. I found Horde to be a challenge to run. Good luck. -Nate > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Todd Walton > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:10 AM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail > > Anybody have any recommendations on an open source webmail program? > I'm looking for something a little more sophisticated than the > SquirrelMail that came with my hosting account. Searching the > Internets I count: > > Zimbra, AtMail, RoundCube, Horde IMP > > I kind of like the looks of Horde, because they have all the other > crap I can add on to do neat stuff. But I also want something that's > going to work simply and going to work well and maybe I don't want to > start adding crap if I'm just gonna get myself in trouble. > > But anyway, what's a real-world real-good set up? > > -todd > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From dave at dchamp.net Thu Mar 26 10:17:17 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Thu Mar 26 10:19:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49CB9C7D.6040808@dchamp.net> I used to be a fan of TWIG, but it's kind of a dead project - hasn't had an update since 2005. http://informationgateway.org/ I liked it because it's a nice simple webmail interface, doesn't try to do too much. And it looked better than Horde... which IMHO looks hideous. I have been meaning to give Roundcube a try... -dc Todd Walton wrote: > Anybody have any recommendations on an open source webmail program? > I'm looking for something a little more sophisticated than the > SquirrelMail that came with my hosting account. Searching the > Internets I count: > > Zimbra, AtMail, RoundCube, Horde IMP > > I kind of like the looks of Horde, because they have all the other > crap I can add on to do neat stuff. But I also want something that's > going to work simply and going to work well and maybe I don't want to > start adding crap if I'm just gonna get myself in trouble. > > But anyway, what's a real-world real-good set up? > > -todd > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > From eric at eric.nu Thu Mar 26 10:20:43 2009 From: eric at eric.nu (Eric Junker) Date: Thu Mar 26 10:23:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49CB9D4B.6030206@eric.nu> Todd Walton wrote: > Anybody have any recommendations on an open source webmail program? > I'm looking for something a little more sophisticated than the > SquirrelMail that came with my hosting account. I use RoundCube but mostly because it is already installed on my email host. Here is a good comparison of several webmail clients. http://www.noupe.com/ajax/10-ajax-webmail-clients.html Eric From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Thu Mar 26 10:30:57 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Thu Mar 26 10:33:15 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200903261030.57479.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Since you mention your hosting account, i'm guessing this is for personal use. I used to administer a Horde/IMP installation. It isn't hard to get running, but takes some time and attention to detail as it has a lot of dependencies. Security and functionality updates come out fairly regularly and require some effort to install properly if you've customized anything. For personal use, i'd say the time required to set up and maintain an installation is probably excessive. In a business setting where you are partially or wholly responsible for e-mail and can dedicate some time to it, then it might make sense. Zimbra is what we migrated to, from the Horde installation. For a small installation, Zimbra would be fairly easy to set up. We've only updated once so far, but the update process is smoother than Horde's. Zimbra also provides a much slicker web application than IMP does. I haven't tried the new Horde/DIMP (Dynamic IMP) that is all AJAX and Web 2.0 buzzword compliant, however. I've heard good things about RoundCube but not used it myself. I've not heard of AtMail before. Between Horde and Zimbra, my advice would be Zimbra. I can't speak for the other options. Horde does have one advantage i can think of though--if you intend to customize it or write your own modules, the architecture for Horde is simpler. It didn't take me long to figure out how to patch Horde to add minor functionality we needed or make small changes to how features worked. I've not yet learned how to do the same with Zimbra. On the other hand, so far the need to customize Zimbra has not been so great as it was with Horde since Zimbra is a better match for our needs. On 2009-03-26 at 10:10:04, Todd Walton wrote: >Anybody have any recommendations on an open source webmail program? >I'm looking for something a little more sophisticated than the >SquirrelMail that came with my hosting account. Searching the >Internets I count: > >Zimbra, AtMail, RoundCube, Horde IMP > >I kind of like the looks of Horde, because they have all the other >crap I can add on to do neat stuff. But I also want something that's >going to work simply and going to work well and maybe I don't want to >start adding crap if I'm just gonna get myself in trouble. > >But anyway, what's a real-world real-good set up? > >-todd >_______________________________________________ >Cialug mailing list >Cialug@cialug.org >http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From ewenix at raccoon.com Thu Mar 26 10:39:44 2009 From: ewenix at raccoon.com (ewenix@raccoon.com) Date: Thu Mar 26 10:45:35 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15214.66.185.12.50.1238081984.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com> I have not used Horde+Imp in a while, but based on my past experience I'd definitely second that, Nate. I doubt it would fit the stated 'easy' requirement. It'll work, but would likely take much more time than what most folks mean when they say easy. Based on the last LUG meeting, zimbra would likely fill the bill. However depending on where it will run you may want to review the zimbra hardware requirements vs. your hosting package. If it's just you using it, then the minimum would likely suffice. -Jeff > > I found Horde to be a challenge to run. > > Good luck. > > -Nate -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From zach at kotlarek.com Thu Mar 26 11:03:03 2009 From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek) Date: Thu Mar 26 11:05:23 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92AEC65B-1AD9-4602-9618-9C76270A5470@kotlarek.com> On Mar 26, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Nathan C. Smith wrote: > Roundcube is a little better (some might say) than squirrelmail and > is reasonably easy to get running. RC is much prettier than SM. But it's sometimes a bit broken. For a long while it did not correctly construct MIME messages, so there were problems sending messages with attachments (it may still not -- I haven't checked in the last ~3 months). And while it's moderately easy to hack in new bits there is still no extensions framework, so if it doesn't do exactly what you want you're on your own. For example, I had to hack in a "copy message" feature. There is also no support for S/MIME. And my clients tell me that the message search feature, while functional, leaves much to be desired. I think eventually RC will be a great mail client. And for personal use if you know what's going on and are willing to occasionally fight with it/fetch new versions/etc. it's not a terrible choice. But I wouldn't deploy it for someone else to use. > I found Horde to be a challenge to run. It looks complicated because Horde has about 25,000 options, but it's really not that hard to get going. But only like 1/4 of the Horde options even apply to IMP, and most of them have reasonable defaults. IMP all by itself is a pretty decent mail client. It's not quite as pretty as RC, but it's way better than SM. There's also DIMP which is all ajaxy and pretty like RC, though I haven't tested it as extensively. If you install them both there's (virtually) no extra config and you can pick which one you want at login time. MIMP is also handy if you're accessing from a limited device, and likewise requires little extra config and can be selected at runtime. I would guess that any of the packaged versions of Horde/IMP are less than a dozen config items/commands away "working". If you're not a package-manager kind of guy I have a source-based install at: http://zinux.cynicbytrade.com/svn/local/horde/ that will install Horde, IMP, DIMP, MIMP, and Turba and get you to the point that configuration is just filling in your hostnames and setting up the DB and HTTP server. Even if you are a package-manager kind of guy you could skip the install step in my makefile and generate a mostly-working set of config files for reference. Zach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090326/3126e6d3/smime.bin From dan at cpugeek.org Thu Mar 26 12:56:59 2009 From: dan at cpugeek.org (Dan Schlichting) Date: Thu Mar 26 12:59:19 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail In-Reply-To: <92AEC65B-1AD9-4602-9618-9C76270A5470@kotlarek.com> References: <92AEC65B-1AD9-4602-9618-9C76270A5470@kotlarek.com> Message-ID: I have tried quite a few. If your talking just for yourself. You may want to think about using Google. Since I switched mine over. I haven't had any problems. Are you wanting to have joebob@customdomain.com or something like xx@qwest.net If you are using your own domain then I would recommend google. Roundcube, had a few problems I can't remember what they were it has been a a year or two. Atmail open was okay but wasn't being updated fast enough for me. Plus you had to tinker with it a bit. I used openwebmail which I think has rolled into something else. Again develpment virtually stopped on it. Just my .02 worth. Dan 2009/3/26 Zachary Kotlarek > > On Mar 26, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Nathan C. Smith wrote: > > Roundcube is a little better (some might say) than squirrelmail and is >> reasonably easy to get running. >> > > > RC is much prettier than SM. But it's sometimes a bit broken. For a long > while it did not correctly construct MIME messages, so there were problems > sending messages with attachments (it may still not -- I haven't checked in > the last ~3 months). And while it's moderately easy to hack in new bits > there is still no extensions framework, so if it doesn't do exactly what you > want you're on your own. For example, I had to hack in a "copy message" > feature. There is also no support for S/MIME. And my clients tell me that > the message search feature, while functional, leaves much to be desired. > > I think eventually RC will be a great mail client. And for personal use if > you know what's going on and are willing to occasionally fight with it/fetch > new versions/etc. it's not a terrible choice. But I wouldn't deploy it for > someone else to use. > > > I found Horde to be a challenge to run. >> > > > > It looks complicated because Horde has about 25,000 options, but it's > really not that hard to get going. But only like 1/4 of the Horde options > even apply to IMP, and most of them have reasonable defaults. > > IMP all by itself is a pretty decent mail client. It's not quite as pretty > as RC, but it's way better than SM. There's also DIMP which is all ajaxy and > pretty like RC, though I haven't tested it as extensively. If you install > them both there's (virtually) no extra config and you can pick which one you > want at login time. MIMP is also handy if you're accessing from a limited > device, and likewise requires little extra config and can be selected at > runtime. > > I would guess that any of the packaged versions of Horde/IMP are less than > a dozen config items/commands away "working". If you're not a > package-manager kind of guy I have a source-based install at: > http://zinux.cynicbytrade.com/svn/local/horde/ > that will install Horde, IMP, DIMP, MIMP, and Turba and get you to the > point that configuration is just filling in your hostnames and setting up > the DB and HTTP server. Even if you are a package-manager kind of guy you > could skip the install step in my makefile and generate a mostly-working set > of config files for reference. > > > Zach > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090326/6a7654f0/attachment.html From newz at bearfruit.org Thu Mar 26 14:50:18 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Thu Mar 26 14:52:39 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Open Source Webmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Todd Walton wrote: > Anybody have any recommendations on an open source webmail program? > I'm looking for something a little more sophisticated than the > SquirrelMail that came with my hosting account. ?Searching the > Internets I count: > > Zimbra, AtMail, RoundCube, Horde IMP > OK, I'll pretend you didn't say simple... SugarCRM has a webmail feature. It works nice and has some extra features you don't find in most web mail apps. But be careful... as of version 5 (last version I tested) if you're on SSL connection it is slow. You can speed it up by enabling gzip compression in apache or php. Actualy, that helps even on non-ssl connections but the problem is less noticable without SSL. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Thu Mar 26 15:14:14 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Thu Mar 26 15:16:55 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy Message-ID: I have been trying to upgrade ubuntu feisty to Ubuntu gutsy. I have replaced all my apt-sources with old-releases.ubuntu.com because us.archive.ubuntu.com no longer seems to have what my machine wants for the update. I have edited /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/prerequists-sources.list to change all the repositories to old-releases.... I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get dist-upgrade it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list back to us.archive.... Can anyone tell me why it is doing that, and is there any way to brute force the upgrade? (in the old days we could sometimes just change all the names from feisty to gutsy and apt-get until done.) I have limited physical access to the machine, otherwise I might have used a CD-ROM by now. -Nate From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Thu Mar 26 15:18:11 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Thu Mar 26 15:20:28 2009 Subject: [Cialug] RE: Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bad form, replying to self. I realize Feisty is spelled wrong... Now. Sorry. > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Nathan C. Smith > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:14 PM > To: 'Central Iowa Linux Users Group' > Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy > > > > I have been trying to upgrade ubuntu feisty to Ubuntu gutsy. > I have replaced all my apt-sources with > old-releases.ubuntu.com because us.archive.ubuntu.com no > longer seems to have what my machine wants for the update. > > I have edited /etc/apt/sources.list and > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/prerequists-sources.list to change > all the repositories to old-releases.... > > I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get dist-upgrade > it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list back to > us.archive.... > > Can anyone tell me why it is doing that, and is there any way > to brute force the upgrade? (in the old days we could > sometimes just change all the names from feisty to gutsy and > apt-get until done.) > > I have limited physical access to the machine, otherwise I > might have used a CD-ROM by now. > > -Nate_______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From newz at bearfruit.org Thu Mar 26 15:26:40 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Thu Mar 26 15:28:58 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Nathan C. Smith wrote: > > I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get dist-upgrade it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list back to us.archive.... > by the way, there's a "better" way to upgrade... use do-release-upgrade It does the apt-get stuff for you and has special rules built in that helps it handle some of the odd cases where apt-get asks you a thousand questions or fights with dependencies. This is the command line equiv of update-manager --dist-upgrade -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Thu Mar 26 15:32:59 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Thu Mar 26 15:35:17 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I meant to add that I have used that too with the same results. -Nate > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Nuzum > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:27 PM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Nathan C. Smith > wrote: > > > > I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get dist-upgrade > it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list back to > us.archive.... > > > > by the way, there's a "better" way to upgrade... use > do-release-upgrade > > It does the apt-get stuff for you and has special rules built in that > helps it handle some of the odd cases where apt-get asks you a > thousand questions or fights with dependencies. This is the command > line equiv of > > update-manager --dist-upgrade > > -- > Matthew Nuzum > newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From nfox at foxmediasystems.com Thu Mar 26 22:21:22 2009 From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox) Date: Thu Mar 26 22:23:52 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49CC4632.3060006@foxmediasystems.com> Are you trying to get to gutsy specifically or just upgrade to stable release? If you want to get to Hardy, you can do 'sudo update-manager -c' and it will take care of everything. -Nick > I meant to add that I have used that too with the same results. > > -Nate > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org >> [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Nuzum >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:27 PM >> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group >> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy >> >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Nathan C. Smith >> wrote: >> >>> I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get dist-upgrade >>> >> it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list back to >> us.archive.... >> >> by the way, there's a "better" way to upgrade... use >> do-release-upgrade >> >> It does the apt-get stuff for you and has special rules built in that >> helps it handle some of the odd cases where apt-get asks you a >> thousand questions or fights with dependencies. This is the command >> line equiv of >> >> update-manager --dist-upgrade >> >> -- >> Matthew Nuzum >> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter >> _______________________________________________ >> Cialug mailing list >> Cialug@cialug.org >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >> _______________________________________________ >> > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -- Nick Fox Fox Media Systems, LLC Owner / President 1338 57th St. Des Moines, IA 50311 www.foxmediasystems.com From nfox at foxmediasystems.com Thu Mar 26 22:30:39 2009 From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox) Date: Thu Mar 26 22:33:03 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy In-Reply-To: <49CC4632.3060006@foxmediasystems.com> References: <49CC4632.3060006@foxmediasystems.com> Message-ID: <49CC485F.2070601@foxmediasystems.com> Whoops, by Hardy, I mean Intrepid. ;) -Nick > Are you trying to get to gutsy specifically or just upgrade to stable > release? > > If you want to get to Hardy, you can do 'sudo update-manager -c' and > it will take care of everything. > > -Nick >> I meant to add that I have used that too with the same results. >> >> -Nate >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] >>> On Behalf Of Matthew Nuzum >>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:27 PM >>> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Nathan C. Smith >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get dist-upgrade >>> it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list back to us.archive.... >>> by the way, there's a "better" way to upgrade... use >>> do-release-upgrade >>> >>> It does the apt-get stuff for you and has special rules built in that >>> helps it handle some of the odd cases where apt-get asks you a >>> thousand questions or fights with dependencies. This is the command >>> line equiv of >>> >>> update-manager --dist-upgrade >>> >>> -- >>> Matthew Nuzum >>> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cialug mailing list >>> Cialug@cialug.org >>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Cialug mailing list >> Cialug@cialug.org >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >> > > -- Nick Fox Fox Media Systems, LLC Owner / President 1338 57th St. Des Moines, IA 50311 www.foxmediasystems.com From jrnosee at gmail.com Fri Mar 27 14:40:24 2009 From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee@gmail.com) Date: Fri Mar 27 14:42:52 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy In-Reply-To: <49CC485F.2070601@foxmediasystems.com> References: <49CC4632.3060006@foxmediasystems.com> <49CC485F.2070601@foxmediasystems.com> Message-ID: Could he mount an iso of the upgrade disk he needs and then upgrade from that? On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Nick Fox wrote: > Whoops, by Hardy, I mean Intrepid. ;) > > -Nick > > Are you trying to get to gutsy specifically or just upgrade to stable >> release? >> >> If you want to get to Hardy, you can do 'sudo update-manager -c' and it >> will take care of everything. >> >> -Nick >> >>> I meant to add that I have used that too with the same results. >>> >>> -Nate >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Matthew Nuzum >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:27 PM >>>> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group >>>> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Nathan C. Smith < >>>> nathan.smith@ipmvs.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get dist-upgrade >>>>> >>>> it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list back to us.archive.... >>>> by the way, there's a "better" way to upgrade... use >>>> do-release-upgrade >>>> >>>> It does the apt-get stuff for you and has special rules built in that >>>> helps it handle some of the odd cases where apt-get asks you a >>>> thousand questions or fights with dependencies. This is the command >>>> line equiv of >>>> >>>> update-manager --dist-upgrade >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Matthew Nuzum >>>> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Cialug mailing list >>>> Cialug@cialug.org >>>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>> Cialug mailing list >>> Cialug@cialug.org >>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >>> >>> >> >> >> > > -- > Nick Fox > > Fox Media Systems, LLC > Owner / President > 1338 57th St. > Des Moines, IA 50311 > www.foxmediasystems.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090327/428e1062/attachment.htm From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Fri Mar 27 15:00:10 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Fri Mar 27 15:02:36 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy In-Reply-To: References: <49CC4632.3060006@foxmediasystems.com> <49CC485F.2070601@foxmediasystems.com> Message-ID: I gave mounting an ISO a go too. I mounted a hardy disk and tried both the cdupgrade and to use it as a repository. Maybe I should have tried to use a feisty disk as a repository. I want to upgrade to Hardy, assuming from there it will be a matter of reboots and apt-gets to get to a current stable version. -Nate ________________________________ From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of jrnosee@gmail.com Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 2:40 PM To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy Could he mount an iso of the upgrade disk he needs and then upgrade from that? On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Nick Fox > wrote: Whoops, by Hardy, I mean Intrepid. ;) -Nick Are you trying to get to gutsy specifically or just upgrade to stable release? If you want to get to Hardy, you can do 'sudo update-manager -c' and it will take care of everything. -Nick I meant to add that I have used that too with the same results. -Nate -----Original Message----- From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Nuzum Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:27 PM To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Nathan C. Smith > wrote: I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get dist-upgrade it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list back to us.archive.... by the way, there's a "better" way to upgrade... use do-release-upgrade It does the apt-get stuff for you and has special rules built in that helps it handle some of the odd cases where apt-get asks you a thousand questions or fights with dependencies. This is the command line equiv of update-manager --dist-upgrade -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug -- Nick Fox Fox Media Systems, LLC Owner / President 1338 57th St. Des Moines, IA 50311 www.foxmediasystems.com _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090327/fa28b744/attachment.html From John.Lengeling at radisys.com Fri Mar 27 18:14:21 2009 From: John.Lengeling at radisys.com (John Lengeling) Date: Fri Mar 27 18:16:47 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Anyone have recommendations or use these low end NAS devices In-Reply-To: <49C928D8.2060607@dchamp.net> References: <49C928D8.2060607@dchamp.net> Message-ID: Anyone have experience and recommendations on these low end NAS storage devices from Western Digital, Maxtor, Buffalo? Looking for something that does NFS and mirroring in the 1T range. johnl From djweis at internetsolver.com Fri Mar 27 20:06:17 2009 From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis) Date: Fri Mar 27 20:08:44 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Anyone have recommendations or use these low end NAS devices In-Reply-To: References: <49C928D8.2060607@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <49CD7809.7020503@internetsolver.com> We have used a lot of the Hammer devices. I don't know how great their NFS support is. I tried to use it as the backend for an ESX server and it wasn't quite up to that but we use it for backup image storage and they work fine. John Lengeling wrote: > Anyone have experience and recommendations on these low end NAS storage > devices from Western Digital, Maxtor, Buffalo? Looking for something > that does NFS and mirroring in the 1T range. > > johnl > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug -- Dave Weis Internet Solver Your Technology Partner 515-224-9229 www.internetsolver.com From thorgrim at imaginarytower.org Sat Mar 28 12:08:09 2009 From: thorgrim at imaginarytower.org (David McLaughlin) Date: Sat Mar 28 12:10:41 2009 Subject: [Cialug] NAS Devices In-Reply-To: <20090328170003.385DFF5F4@www.cialug.org> References: <20090328170003.385DFF5F4@www.cialug.org> Message-ID: Or you could build your own using FreeNAS http://www.freenas.org/ Dave McLaughlin From inflatablesoulmate at brothersofchaos.com Sun Mar 29 01:13:08 2009 From: inflatablesoulmate at brothersofchaos.com (Matt Stanton) Date: Sun Mar 29 01:15:43 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night Message-ID: <49CF1174.7020905@brothersofchaos.com> Howdy, Could someone update the info for the Movie Night meeting on the website? I know we had a place worked out (across the street from the building alliance tech is in?). I only joined the list recently and never got any of the info if it was made available. Thanks, Matt From tdwalton at gmail.com Sun Mar 29 10:36:42 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Sun Mar 29 10:39:15 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Optical Drive Won't Boot Message-ID: oes to the hard drive, which has a GRUB, but doesn't have a bootable system on it. I checked that the DVD drive is supposed to be the first boot device, and also my motherboard will take the F8 key to choose boot device. I use that and explicitly choose the DVD drive. It doesn't boot the disc. My motherboard is mainly SATA, with one IDE connector. I have the optical drive and the hard drive on the IDE connector. The hard drive is slave and the optical drive is master. I know this set up should be okay because on the older CD drive the CD boots (it just dies shortly afterward). The DVD drive is set to master. I would think that if the jumper were set wrong that it wouldn't boot at all, not even to the hard drive's GRUB. Anyone have any suggestions on how to get this DVD drive to boot? -todd From morej at alliancetechnologies.net Sun Mar 29 13:00:53 2009 From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More) Date: Sun Mar 29 13:03:42 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night Message-ID: <49CF71060200002E00031F89@alliancetechnologies.net> I've updated with the information I know. I hope to get more explicit directions soon. -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej@alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 >>> Matt Stanton 03/29/09 1:14 AM >>> Howdy, Could someone update the info for the Movie Night meeting on the website? I know we had a place worked out (across the street from the building alliance tech is in?). I only joined the list recently and never got any of the info if it was made available. Thanks, Matt _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug@cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug From nfox at foxmediasystems.com Sun Mar 29 13:52:57 2009 From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox) Date: Sun Mar 29 13:55:43 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy In-Reply-To: References: <49CC4632.3060006@foxmediasystems.com> <49CC485F.2070601@foxmediasystems.com> Message-ID: <49CFC389.7090809@foxmediasystems.com> You would still have to go through this same process for hardy -> intrepid doing it this way. I highly suggest reverting your sources.list back and using update-manager to process the distro upgrade. -Nick > I gave mounting an ISO a go too. I mounted a hardy disk and tried > both the cdupgrade and to use it as a repository. Maybe I should have > tried to use a feisty disk as a repository. > > I want to upgrade to Hardy, assuming from there it will be a matter of > reboots and apt-gets to get to a current stable version. > > -Nate > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] *On Behalf Of *jrnosee@gmail.com > *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2009 2:40 PM > *To:* Central Iowa Linux Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu fiesty to gutsy > > Could he mount an iso of the upgrade disk he needs and then > upgrade from that? > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Nick Fox > > wrote: > > Whoops, by Hardy, I mean Intrepid. ;) > > -Nick > > Are you trying to get to gutsy specifically or just > upgrade to stable release? > > If you want to get to Hardy, you can do 'sudo > update-manager -c' and it will take care of everything. > > -Nick > > I meant to add that I have used that too with the same > results. > > -Nate > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org > > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org > ] On Behalf Of > Matthew Nuzum > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:27 PM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [Cialug] Problem upgrading ubuntu > fiesty to gutsy > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Nathan C. Smith > > wrote: > > > I can run apt-get update but when I do apt-get > dist-upgrade > > it switches some of the prerequists-sources.list > back to us.archive.... > by the way, there's a "better" way to > upgrade... use do-release-upgrade > > It does the apt-get stuff for you and has special > rules built in that > helps it handle some of the odd cases where > apt-get asks you a > thousand questions or fights with dependencies. > This is the command > line equiv of > > update-manager --dist-upgrade > > -- > Matthew Nuzum > newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca > and twitter > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > _______________________________________________ > > > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > > > > > > -- > Nick Fox > > Fox Media Systems, LLC > Owner / President > 1338 57th St. > Des Moines, IA 50311 > www.foxmediasystems.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -- Nick Fox Fox Media Systems, LLC Owner / President 1338 57th St. Des Moines, IA 50311 www.foxmediasystems.com From nfox at foxmediasystems.com Sun Mar 29 13:56:35 2009 From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox) Date: Sun Mar 29 13:59:09 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Optical Drive Won't Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49CFC463.9040300@foxmediasystems.com> Harddrive should not be slave to a rom drive. Should be the other way around. Some BIOS's will freak over this configuration. Slave the DVD to the HDD then change the Boot order in the BIOS if you want the DVD to be first. -Nick > oes to the hard drive, which has a GRUB, but doesn't have a bootable > system on it. I checked that the DVD drive is supposed to be the > first boot device, and also my motherboard will take the F8 key to > choose boot device. I use that and explicitly choose the DVD drive. > It doesn't boot the disc. > > My motherboard is mainly SATA, with one IDE connector. I have the > optical drive and the hard drive on the IDE connector. The hard drive > is slave and the optical drive is master. I know this set up should > be okay because on the older CD drive the CD boots (it just dies > shortly afterward). The DVD drive is set to master. I would think > that if the jumper were set wrong that it wouldn't boot at all, not > even to the hard drive's GRUB. > > Anyone have any suggestions on how to get this DVD drive to boot? > > -todd > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -- Nick Fox Fox Media Systems, LLC Owner / President 1338 57th St. Des Moines, IA 50311 www.foxmediasystems.com From newz at bearfruit.org Sun Mar 29 22:04:26 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Sun Mar 29 22:07:02 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Optical Drive Won't Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Todd Walton wrote: > > Anyone have any suggestions on how to get this DVD drive to boot? > Check to make sure the DVD disk boots in another computer. One time I about pulled my hair out because I was burning my disks at too high of a speed and they weren't functioning properly (they had erratic errors). I thought it was a problem with the target computer but it was actually the disks. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From jrnosee at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 09:47:46 2009 From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee@gmail.com) Date: Mon Mar 30 09:50:26 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Optical Drive Won't Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've had issues using cable select on the drives. Try setting the jumpers to proper master/slave as well if you haven't already. Also, if you have it set this way, try cable select for the heck of it...somethings work for some and not others! On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Matthew Nuzum wrote: > On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Todd Walton wrote: > > > > Anyone have any suggestions on how to get this DVD drive to boot? > > > > Check to make sure the DVD disk boots in another computer. One time I > about pulled my hair out because I was burning my disks at too high of > a speed and they weren't functioning properly (they had erratic > errors). I thought it was a problem with the target computer but it > was actually the disks. > > -- > Matthew Nuzum > newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090330/9bab846b/attachment.htm From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 30 12:41:28 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 30 16:42:27 2009 Subject: [Cialug] nmap conficker scan Message-ID: <49D10448.2040907@dchamp.net> There's a /. article about scanning for the conficker / downadup worm, the article has a dozen links, but of course none of them points to anything useful (in typical /. fashion). I found this in a hidden post, how to update your copy of nmap to scan for the worm: http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1180397&cid=27390643 http://www.skullsecurity.org/blog/?p=209 This post describes another method... http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1180397&cid=27390421 This post say to be careful, because it will probably crash vulnerable systems: http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1180397&cid=27390649 -dc From jrnosee at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 16:17:15 2009 From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee@gmail.com) Date: Mon Mar 30 16:44:45 2009 Subject: [Cialug] portable, configureable ubuntu.... Message-ID: Ok, so I know it's supposed to be easy enough to put ubuntu on a portable drive. My question then is, is it like a live cd would be? I've never set one up but I would imagine it would save your changes (txt files, installed apps, etc). Is there any way to make it so it could use a general config set or select a set for a specific computer? Say if I want a config that uses the nvidia drivers for my personal computer, but still use generic elsewhere? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090330/2cd73acb/attachment.html From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 30 16:46:31 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 30 16:45:55 2009 Subject: [Cialug] LUG server Message-ID: <49D13DB7.4010901@dchamp.net> FYI, the CIALUG server was down for a while today. It's back again now, obviously. Thanks to Dan A. for rebooting it... and of course for the continued hosting. -dc From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 30 16:48:27 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 30 16:47:52 2009 Subject: [Cialug] portable, configureable ubuntu.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49D13E2B.6020205@dchamp.net> If you have the ability to run one of the VM systems (VMWare, Xen etc...), you could just carry around a VM image... that will abstract the hardware issues, but you have to have the player installed on the host PC, which isn't always an option. -dc jrnosee@gmail.com wrote: > Ok, so I know it's supposed to be easy enough to put ubuntu on a > portable drive. My question then is, is it like a live cd would be? > I've never set one up but I would imagine it would save your changes > (txt files, installed apps, etc). Is there any way to make it so it > could use a general config set or select a set for a specific > computer? Say if I want a config that uses the nvidia drivers for my > personal computer, but still use generic elsewhere? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From jrnosee at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 18:01:06 2009 From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee@gmail.com) Date: Mon Mar 30 18:01:50 2009 Subject: [Cialug] portable, configureable ubuntu.... In-Reply-To: <49D13E2B.6020205@dchamp.net> References: <49D13E2B.6020205@dchamp.net> Message-ID: and it doesn't let me use nvidia drivers either.... On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:48 PM, David Champion wrote: > If you have the ability to run one of the VM systems (VMWare, Xen etc...), > you could just carry around a VM image... that will abstract the hardware > issues, but you have to have the player installed on the host PC, which > isn't always an option. > > -dc > > jrnosee@gmail.com wrote: > >> Ok, so I know it's supposed to be easy enough to put ubuntu on a portable >> drive. My question then is, is it like a live cd would be? I've never set >> one up but I would imagine it would save your changes (txt files, installed >> apps, etc). Is there any way to make it so it could use a general config >> set or select a set for a specific computer? Say if I want a config that >> uses the nvidia drivers for my personal computer, but still use generic >> elsewhere? >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cialug mailing list >> Cialug@cialug.org >> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/attachments/20090330/ad534510/attachment.html From dave at dchamp.net Mon Mar 30 18:16:00 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Mon Mar 30 18:16:04 2009 Subject: [Cialug] portable, configureable ubuntu.... In-Reply-To: References: <49D13E2B.6020205@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <49D152B0.3090409@dchamp.net> 3D acceleration is supported in some of the VM software now, but about 10 to 20% slower than on the native hardware... so about like running games under Wine. -dc jrnosee@gmail.com wrote: > and it doesn't let me use nvidia drivers either.... > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:48 PM, David Champion > wrote: > > If you have the ability to run one of the VM systems (VMWare, Xen > etc...), you could just carry around a VM image... that will > abstract the hardware issues, but you have to have the player > installed on the host PC, which isn't always an option. > > -dc > > jrnosee@gmail.com wrote: > > Ok, so I know it's supposed to be easy enough to put ubuntu on > a portable drive. My question then is, is it like a live cd > would be? I've never set one up but I would imagine it would > save your changes (txt files, installed apps, etc). Is there > any way to make it so it could use a general config set or > select a set for a specific computer? Say if I want a config > that uses the nvidia drivers for my personal computer, but > still use generic elsewhere? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From tdwalton at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 18:22:41 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Mon Mar 30 18:23:23 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Optical Drive Won't Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3/29/09, Matthew Nuzum wrote: > Check to make sure the DVD disk boots in another computer. One time I > about pulled my hair out because I was burning my disks at too high of > a speed and they weren't functioning properly (they had erratic > errors). I thought it was a problem with the target computer but it > was actually the disks. Well, if I use the same hard drive but an older different CD drive, the disks boot. So I think that means it's the DVD drive. Or just an incompatibility problem between the two. I guess this is why SATA was invented. -todd From tdwalton at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 18:23:51 2009 From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton) Date: Mon Mar 30 18:24:34 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Optical Drive Won't Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3/30/09, jrnosee@gmail.com wrote: > I've had issues using cable select on the drives. Try setting the jumpers > to proper master/slave as well if you haven't already. Also, if you have it > set this way, try cable select for the heck of it...somethings work for some > and not others! I tried using cable select on both drives, and I tried setting the jumper specifically to master or slave, and swapped the drives and adjusted the jumpers. -todd From newz at bearfruit.org Mon Mar 30 23:16:48 2009 From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum) Date: Mon Mar 30 23:17:32 2009 Subject: [Cialug] portable, configureable ubuntu.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2009/3/30 : > Ok, so I know it's supposed to be easy enough to put ubuntu on a portable > drive.? My question then is, is it like a live cd would be?? I've never set > one up but I would imagine it would save your changes (txt files, installed > apps, etc).? Is there any way to make it so it could use a general config > set or select a set for a specific computer?? Say if I want a config that > uses the nvidia drivers for my personal computer, but still use generic > elsewhere? > Yes, if you use the startup disk creation tool to create a usb thumb drive version of Ubuntu it is configurable and persistent. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter From cwfreeman at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 08:37:38 2009 From: cwfreeman at gmail.com (Chris Freeman) Date: Tue Mar 31 08:38:22 2009 Subject: [Cialug] LUG server In-Reply-To: <49D13DB7.4010901@dchamp.net> References: <49D13DB7.4010901@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <3afd8deb0903310637v164b22ar52c22c551873486c@mail.gmail.com> Can we get an auto-booting mechanism like demonstrated here: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/ITAPPMONROBOT.aspx On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:46 PM, David Champion wrote: > FYI, the CIALUG server was down for a while today. It's back again now, > obviously. > > Thanks to Dan A. for rebooting it... and of course for the continued > hosting. > > -dc > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 31 09:29:22 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 31 09:29:33 2009 Subject: [Cialug] LUG server In-Reply-To: <3afd8deb0903310637v164b22ar52c22c551873486c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49D13DB7.4010901@dchamp.net> <3afd8deb0903310637v164b22ar52c22c551873486c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49D228C2.7040400@dchamp.net> That is every bit as elegant as the phone queue monitoring webcam I set up several years ago... There has been some discussion about moving the CIALUG server to a Xen image, possibly on a Xen server run by one of our members. If that happens, we should auction off the old server to the highest bidder. -dc Chris Freeman wrote: > Can we get an auto-booting mechanism like demonstrated here: > > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/ITAPPMONROBOT.aspx > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:46 PM, David Champion wrote: > >> FYI, the CIALUG server was down for a while today. It's back again now, >> obviously. >> >> Thanks to Dan A. for rebooting it... and of course for the continued >> hosting. >> >> -dc >> From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 31 09:35:44 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 31 09:35:49 2009 Subject: [Cialug] nmap conficker scan In-Reply-To: <49D10448.2040907@dchamp.net> References: <49D10448.2040907@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <49D22A40.1020108@dchamp.net> BTW, if you're worried about conficker, you should call Dave "Hollywood" Weis... http://www.kcci.com/video/19052802/index.html I'm just guessing that he might be kind of busy for the next couple of days. -dc David Champion wrote: > There's a /. article about scanning for the conficker / downadup worm, > the article has a dozen links, but of course none of them points to > anything useful (in typical /. fashion). I found this in a hidden > post, how to update your copy of nmap to scan for the worm: > > http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1180397&cid=27390643 > http://www.skullsecurity.org/blog/?p=209 > > This post describes another method... > http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1180397&cid=27390421 > > This post say to be careful, because it will probably crash vulnerable > systems: > http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1180397&cid=27390649 > > -dc > > > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From djweis at internetsolver.com Tue Mar 31 14:02:19 2009 From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis) Date: Tue Mar 31 14:03:04 2009 Subject: [Cialug] nmap conficker scan In-Reply-To: <49D22A40.1020108@dchamp.net> References: <49D10448.2040907@dchamp.net> <49D22A40.1020108@dchamp.net> Message-ID: <49D268BB.1060606@internetsolver.com> David Champion wrote: > BTW, if you're worried about conficker, you should call Dave "Hollywood" > Weis... > > http://www.kcci.com/video/19052802/index.html > > I'm just guessing that he might be kind of busy for the next couple of > days. I didn't realize how many people stay up later than me to watch the news. We've been besieged with phone calls from people that scroll past the big box containing download URL's to find the contact number and call to ask how to download the free software... dave -- Dave Weis djweis@internetsolver.com http://www.internetsolver.com/ From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com Tue Mar 31 14:04:18 2009 From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith) Date: Tue Mar 31 14:05:22 2009 Subject: [Cialug] nmap conficker scan In-Reply-To: <49D268BB.1060606@internetsolver.com> References: <49D10448.2040907@dchamp.net> <49D22A40.1020108@dchamp.net> <49D268BB.1060606@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: Brilliant! > -----Original Message----- > From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org > [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Dave Weis > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [Cialug] nmap conficker scan > > David Champion wrote: > > BTW, if you're worried about conficker, you should call > Dave "Hollywood" > > Weis... > > > > http://www.kcci.com/video/19052802/index.html > > > > I'm just guessing that he might be kind of busy for the > next couple of > > days. > > I didn't realize how many people stay up later than me to watch the > news. We've been besieged with phone calls from people that > scroll past > the big box containing download URL's to find the contact number and > call to ask how to download the free software... > > dave > > -- > Dave Weis > djweis@internetsolver.com > http://www.internetsolver.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Cialug mailing list > Cialug@cialug.org > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug > From dave at dchamp.net Tue Mar 31 14:51:36 2009 From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion) Date: Tue Mar 31 14:51:42 2009 Subject: [Cialug] nmap conficker scan In-Reply-To: References: <49D10448.2040907@dchamp.net> <49D22A40.1020108@dchamp.net> <49D268BB.1060606@internetsolver.com> Message-ID: <49D27448.4060007@dchamp.net> I think that's when you're supposed to ask them for their credit card # and bill them $30. -dc Nathan C. Smith wrote: > Brilliant! > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cialug-bounces@cialug.org >> [mailto:cialug-bounces@cialug.org] On Behalf Of Dave Weis >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM >> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group >> Subject: Re: [Cialug] nmap conficker scan >> >> David Champion wrote: >> >>> BTW, if you're worried about conficker, you should call >>> >> Dave "Hollywood" >> >>> Weis... >>> >>> http://www.kcci.com/video/19052802/index.html >>> >>> I'm just guessing that he might be kind of busy for the >>> >> next couple of >> >>> days. >>> >> I didn't realize how many people stay up later than me to watch the >> news. We've been besieged with phone calls from people that >> scroll past >> the big box containing download URL's to find the contact number and >> call to ask how to download the free software... >> >> dave >> >> -- >> Dave Weis >> djweis@internetsolver.com >> http://www.internetsolver.com/ >> From kevin at linuxsmith.com Tue Mar 31 16:10:24 2009 From: kevin at linuxsmith.com (Kevin C. Smith) Date: Tue Mar 31 16:11:07 2009 Subject: [Cialug] Server upgrade Message-ID: <41bd6b7b5b489cbfe547f918161c2b24.squirrel@www.linuxsmith.com> The server is being upgraded this evening. Expect some down time. IF it goes bad it will not be up until sometime Wednesday. Once it's all good I'll send another notification. From kevin at linuxsmith.com Tue Mar 31 19:34:30 2009 From: kevin at linuxsmith.com (Kevin C. Smith) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:34:30 -0500 Subject: [Cialug] Server upgrade In-Reply-To: <41bd6b7b5b489cbfe547f918161c2b24.squirrel@www.linuxsmith.com> References: <41bd6b7b5b489cbfe547f918161c2b24.squirrel@www.linuxsmith.com> Message-ID: <49D2B696.9020505@linuxsmith.com> Server upgrade appears to have gone well. All services "should" be restored. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Tue Mar 31 19:35:18 2009 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:35:18 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "InfraGard is an information sharing and analysis effort serving the interests and combining the knowledge base of a wide range of members. At its most basic level, InfraGard is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the private sector. InfraGard is an association of businesses, academic institutions, state and local law enforcement agencies, and other participants dedicated to sharing information and intelligence to prevent hostile acts against the United States. InfraGard Chapters are geographically linked with FBI Field Office territories." To be a member, you have to be investigated by the FBI, but it's really not that hard to get in. The meetings tend to focus on current security threats and general technical controls. I am already the resident Linux "expert" of the group, so Linux-wise, I'll just be continuing general advocacy. I do, however, anticipate increased networking opportunities. Do you have any further questions about Infragard? -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC morej at alliancetechnologies.net 515-245-7701 >>> Todd Walton 04/06/09 1:01 PM >>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Tom Pohl wrote: > Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I'd like to congratulate Josh > Moore on being the new Deputy Cyber Sector Chief of the Iowa Infragard! > > Hopefully I won't get in trouble for mentioning it :) Wow, cool. Congratulations, Josh. I didn't even know such an organization existed. Will this position come with more responsibility? More networking opportunities? It's honorable of you to protect the mor?s of our community, and I wouldn't mind hearing more about the InfraGard. Is there anything at all more Linux related in your role? -todd _______________________________________________ Cialug mailing list Cialug at cialug.org http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug